Buying at Greysheet or less?

[Hard Times]

I have seen alot of threads here recently where posters have suggested that they only buy at greysheet or less. Well, I have been bidding in the latest Heritage auction, and I can tell you for the series I collect, pretty much ALL of the coins I was bidding on went for market value or much higher, nowhere near close to greysheet. In the seated halves, some I bid on or wanted to bid on closed at 3 times MV! Having said that, I would like to think that I am bidding on problem-free examples that are properly graded and with strong eye appeal, and if possible, are rare die varieties or simply rare or low mintage issues.

 

So I ask you folks these questions - what kind of coins are you going getting at greysheet or less? Who are these dealers that sell for such extremely low prices and how is that they can make a profit? I just don't find quality specimens at those prices, at least for the last 6-12 months. Is it possible that the published values are about to begin rising strongly again? The auction results I am seeing suggest this.

 

Thoughts?

[James_OldeTowne]

I do not necessarily try to buy coins at greysheet or less, but I am frequently able to. However, I can tell you that using Heritage as a comparison is not a valid choice, since Heritage is a retailer, and therefore, it's expected that coins they sell will go for substantially more than greysheet. If they sold coins only at sheet, then nobody would ever bother to consign to them, since it would be much faster to take one's coins to any coinshow and get paid immediately at that level.

 

I am almost always to buy below sheet (for example) silver commemoratives, common Seated coins, generic Morgans and especially Peace dollars (except in times of crazy bullion runs, of course), moderns all day long, circulated wheat cents, etc. Actually, the list is long for coins that regularly trade under sheet.

 

Now, don't expect to pick up bust quarters in VF below sheet, or Trade dollars in MS-62, or large cents with excellent surface quality, or wonderfully toned Morgan dollars. You won't be able to buy a nice-for-the-grade 1802 half-cent at sheet, nor a 1955 doubled-die, nor a 1901-S Barber quarter. Those things don't happen.

 

And of course, when you set up at shows, there are many vest-pocket wholesalers from which you can get surprisingly nice coins for under "bid". But you have to be on your toes, because their inventory will run the gamut from miserable to average to terrific coins, and from common-as-dirt to desirable to downright rare. Much wholesale material is also non-certified.

 

So in conclusion, in reference to your OP, just remember than you can never expect to pay only greysheet for coins in a retail setting, which is what Heritage is. That is a completely unrealistic expectation.

[BillJones]

James covered the areas in the coin market where pieces often trade at Gray Sheet levels or less. Sheet prices apply to “widgets” and coins like the early commemorative silver and gold coins that are generally out of favor. Even the Heritage auctions can yield some coins within the Gray Sheet guidelines. For example last summer I bought a 1905 Lewis and Clark gold dollar in PCGS MS-64, CAC for Gray Sheet ask at a Heritage sale. The coin is very nice for the grade.

 

There are some areas of the Gray Sheet that are just plain unrealistic. For example the prices listed for early half cents and large cents are ridiculously low. You can’t buy any of those coins that are properly graded and attractive for those prices. I don’t know where the Gray Sheet reporters find transactions at those levels because I’ve not seen them.

 

One thing I will say, however, is that I would be very careful about paying three times Gray Sheet bid. If I’m going to pay that the coin has to be rare, hard to find and “sing and dance” for the grade. And even then I’m not sure I would ever do it. Paying premiums like that reminds me of the 1979-80 period when people were desperate to convent paper dollars into “things.” I’m hearing those words now about the present economy. At the end of the 1979-80 bull market, coin prices collapsed and those who paid the high numbers lost a lot of money.

 

The Gray Sheet does give you a base, and for most things, except early copper, one would be wise to keep it in mind. Even early gold can sell for Gray Sheet prices when the number on the grading holder is not accurate, or the coin lacks eye appeal.

 

Finally I approach Heritage auctions as a “last resort.” Yes I have bought coins at them, but by in large they were pieces I was not able to find through my dealer sources. I’ve seen many instances were coins sell for more at auction than they do on the bourse floor. You have be like me and really enjoy spending many hours at coin shows looking for material, but it can be very worthwhile.

 

[Hard Times]

Bill and James, thanks for the very insightful comments. Some of what you say is what I have suspected and have observed. Like Bill, when coins, even semi-scarce seated halves get way over greysheet or MV, I would drop out quickly unless there is something exceptional about them.

 

 

[Dudley the 1st]

I have to agree with James & Bill . I have had many opportunities to purchase some very nice High End pieces, some even with the Green Lantern bean of approval close to Greysheet, but depending on the individual issue's rarity for the grade, the norm would be wholesale x 1.5 or multiple times higher.

 

[BillJones]

For those who would like to see what you can buy for the Gray Sheet price or less, check out this coin and discussion in the "Hey buddy can you spare a grade" area.

 

1885-O Morgan Dollar

[michael]

I do not necessarily try to buy coins at greysheet or less, but I am frequently able to. However, I can tell you that using Heritage as a comparison is not a valid choice, since Heritage is a retailer, and therefore, it's expected that coins they sell will go for substantially more than greysheet. If they sold coins only at sheet, then nobody would ever bother to consign to them, since it would be much faster to take one's coins to any coinshow and get paid immediately at that level.

 

I am almost always to buy below sheet (for example) silver commemoratives, common Seated coins, generic Morgans and especially Peace dollars (except in times of crazy bullion runs, of course), moderns all day long, circulated wheat cents, etc. Actually, the list is long for coins that regularly trade under sheet.

 

Now, don't expect to pick up bust quarters in VF below sheet, or Trade dollars in MS-62, or large cents with excellent surface quality, or wonderfully toned Morgan dollars. You won't be able to buy a nice-for-the-grade 1802 half-cent at sheet, nor a 1955 doubled-die, nor a 1901-S Barber quarter. Those things don't happen.

 

And of course, when you set up at shows, there are many vest-pocket wholesalers from which you can get surprisingly nice coins for under "bid". But you have to be on your toes, because their inventory will run the gamut from miserable to average to terrific coins, and from common-as-dirt to desirable to downright rare. Much wholesale material is also non-certified.

 

So in conclusion, in reference to your OP, just remember than you can never expect to pay only greysheet for coins in a retail setting, which is what Heritage is. That is a completely unrealistic expectation.

 

could'nt have said it better (thumbs u