If you send in toned coins to NGC be very careful....

[TonerGuy]

Instead of posting super large images - here are links to most of the pics... they untouched... A couple of the coins were proofs and I just could not get satisfactory images to post... Thoughts - AT - NT ?

 

Obverse 78-S Ike

Reverse

 

Obverse 76-S Unc Silver Ike

Reverse

 

Obverse 71-D Ike

Reverse

 

Obverse 71-S Ike Unc Silver

Reverse

 

Reverse 65 JFK

Obverse

 

Obverse 76-S Clad Wash

Reverse

 

Obverse 58 Roosie

Reverse

 

Obverse 59 Jeff

Reverse

[kryptonitecomics]

Ok I looked at the images and I can pretty much guarantee the reason they bagged is you have a group of coins all with very similar toning patterns and colors. Yes this can happen when these coins are all stored together in the same album but when you are talking about clad Ikes and Kennedy's, a Nickel, and a Silver roosie. That's just too much of a coincedence for a tpg to ignore even though it's completly plausable that the coins are NT. To me the dime and the Nickel do not look Market acceptable but it may just be the images. The kennedy's and Ikes all look ok....they don't scream AT but it's rare to find that many toned clads together so again I think that's what did them in...? You also have a Silver Ike with deep rainbow bands of toning around the obverse but the reverse is blast white and I can't think of a way that could happen naturally in an album as both sides should have toned.

 

So I think there is probably an 85% chance based solely on the images that the coins are NT but I can see some of them being very questionable which killed the whole submission. I could be wrong but I don't think I am and I think if some of these coins would have been sent in by themselves you may have been alright (thumbs u

[TonerGuy]

Ok I looked at the images and I can pretty much guarantee the reason they bagged is you have a group of coins all with very similar toning patterns and colors. Yes this can happen when these coins are all stored together in the same album but when you are talking about clad Ikes and Kennedy's, a Nickel, and a Silver roosie. That's just too much of a coincedence for a tpg to ignore even though it's completly plausable that the coins are NT. To me the dime and the Nickel do not look Market acceptable but it may just be the images. The kennedy's and Ikes all look ok....they don't scream AT but it's rare to find that many toned clads together so again I think that's what did them in...? You also have a Silver Ike with deep rainbow bands of toning around the obverse but the reverse is blast white and I can't think of a way that could happen naturally in an album as both sides should have toned.

 

So I think there is probably an 85% chance based solely on the images that the coins are NT but I can see some of them being very questionable which killed the whole submission. I could be wrong but I don't think I am and I think if some of these coins would have been sent in by themselves you may have been alright (thumbs u

 

I can certainly understand what your saying - and the reason that they look similar is that most of all of them came from several Dansco albums that I was able to cherry pick coins from. The dime I can see being too colorful - the nickel though was hardly an A+ toned Jeff. It was merely a nice place holder until I found a more colorful example. Its on the dark side.

 

As for one sided album toning - that can certainly happen depending on how far the coin was pushed into the Dansco album. If it popped past the cardboard and was touching the slide the obverse probably wouldnt tone. I have several Washington Quarters toning in the same manner in a Whitman album.

 

But thank you for your opinion. I do appreciate it.

[physics-fan3.14]

I agree with Shane - the number and very close similarity of these coins put the final nail in the coffin on them, so to speak. But, just from the pictures, at least have of them are definitely Questionable Toning, with a few of them definitely not market acceptable (especially the dime and nickel).

[coinman_23885]

I agree with Shane - the number and very close similarity of these coins put the final nail in the coffin on them, so to speak. But, just from the pictures, at least have of them are definitely Questionable Toning, with a few of them definitely not market acceptable (especially the dime and nickel).

 

I fully agree; I would have body bagged the entire set.

[PCcoins]

I completely disagree. The toning looks ok on all of those coins to me. But the images aren't all that great, but the toning looks like it was mostly from albums.

 

Who knows, but I would be very hesitant to submit any more toners to ngc!

[lehigh96]

I don't understand how you guys are even forming an opinion based on those photos. They are so dark, you can't possibly have an idea what the coin looks like in hand. I would be hesitant to draw any firm conclusions based on what I've seen.

[James_OldeTowne]

I just cataloged a fairly sizable grouping of wildly toned Morgan dollars. Some of them might be pretty close to questionable, but they are all certified by NGC, and were submitted only over the last month or so. It appears that nice, wild color is still getting into slabs on a regular basis.

[kryptonitecomics]

I don't understand how you guys are even forming an opinion based on those photos. They are so dark, you can't possibly have an idea what the coin looks like in hand. I would be hesitant to draw any firm conclusions based on what I've seen.

 

 

My specialty is determining what coins look like from less then favorable images and I guarantee I know what these coins would look like in hand which is why they don't scream AT to me....rather it's the similar toning on the group that I feel did them in (thumbs u

 

The TPGs don't know the coins came from an album...they simply know that most of the coins have very similar colors and patterns which can absolutely happen naturally but in this day in age is more likely to be from the work of a coin doctor

[TonerGuy]

From my discussions with NGC and I really have to give them a lot of credit for being so communicative - its not necessary the toning - its the coin it is on.

 

I have had several discussions with customer service and other coins were shown to RM and he provided them with an explanation as to my other two invoices - which also got the full BB treatment.

 

I agree with the posters that have said its the grouping. But its also the fact that many of the coins were moderns. I truly believe that the similarity of the toning on a group of moderns is what made it a problem. You dont see many toned moderns which is why I think the red-flag went up.

 

I have one more submission thats in grading now of pre-1955 coins. I am hoping that comes out better. Once I get the grades on those I will post them as well.

 

Again though my hat is off to NGC for going above & beyond what I consider good customer service. They really cemented me as a lifelong and loyal customer in the way they handled this issue for me.

[James_OldeTowne]

For instance, Dansco albums impart a golden rim with rainbow highlights with pink/blue centers on clad coins.

 

You mean like this:

 

 

and this:

 

 

jom

Similar toning is also produced by the old, blue Whitman folders, and I suspect other folders as well.

[James_OldeTowne]

Instead of posting super large images - here are links to most of the pics... they untouched... A couple of the coins were proofs and I just could not get satisfactory images to post... Thoughts - AT - NT ?

 

Obverse 78-S Ike

Reverse

 

Obverse 76-S Unc Silver Ike

Reverse

 

Obverse 71-D Ike

Reverse

 

Obverse 71-S Ike Unc Silver

Reverse

 

Reverse 65 JFK

Obverse

 

Obverse 76-S Clad Wash

Reverse

 

Obverse 58 Roosie

Reverse

 

Obverse 59 Jeff

Reverse

FWIW, I like most all of these, except for the 58 dime, which is only "OK", and I don't care much for the 59 Jefferson.

[mikesartifacts]

I too looked at the images, and I must agree with KC and most others. While it is difficult to tell conclusively from the images, to me they show coins that are NT though the Rosy and the Jefferson look iffy – maybe they are just darker NT or it is the images themselves. The similarities between them might have had some influence in the minds of the graders. I’m sure that in the early days before TPG’s had their guard up coin docs (whose creations are largely made assembly line style with little deviation in pattern and hue) sent in market acceptable coins in groups and this may have raised a red flag long ago.

 

I have in the past purposely divided uber pieces (NT of course) into separate submissions because one coin can sometimes outshine the next when all received together IMO. I did however recently submit about 18 beautiful Jeffersons that came from the same Capitol holder, a set that I believe was complete and mounted for about 40 years, because I wanted sequential serial numbers for these pieces. For whatever reason, the reverse was predominately the color side in the ‘38-‘64 set which about 80% were nicely toned, and yet 2 pieces came back as AT. I will say that for every submission over many years the quantity that I send in is always dictated by my budget, and it always contains the best pieces I have at the time which is probably the case with most of us. My experience has been about 5-10% come back in BB, but this is not just for AT, but things like wheel marks and planchet problems (nowadays mint errors). I have even had some very colorful NT toners come back as Environmental Damage, where the layers of oxidation are a bit scaly under magnification, but you can see the thickness of toning on almost any coin under mag. As we all know, its very subjective. It is good to hear that customer service is treating you well... that make a difference.

 

[Dudley the 1st]

And the bottom line is....as long as you , the customer is satisfied , nothing else really matters . Few Service oriented companies can muster many satisfied customers these days .

[Yaha]

It's not really NGC or PCGS fault. It's mostly these coin doctors and other slobs that come on here or ATS and tell coin collectors from young to old how to store your coins with sulfer products.. I remember a fat mouth halibut that bragged about how he would purposely put coins in his damp closet and cherry pick them... The ones that came back AT or the ones he thought was suspect, he would dump them on the market or sell to other forum members.. I even submitted such threads to PCGS and they let this fish run their forum, go figure, expensive lesson for the coin hearted but a great winfall for the TPG's..

 

 

Good luck in the future.. thanks George

[djdilliodon]

Got the results of my recent 40 coin submission which contained 30ish toners. All graded nicely but my white ms65 61d didn't go fbl. When it comes back I gotta give it better look as I thought it was fbl .