If you send in toned coins to NGC be very careful....

[TonerGuy]

I just got my grades today and 10 out of 10 are AT...

 

001 1971 S SILVER $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

002 1971 D $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

003 1976 S T-2 CLAD $1 PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

004 1976 S SILVER $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

005 1978 S $1 PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

006 1965 50C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

007 1976 S CLAD 25C PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

008 1958 10C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

009 1959 5C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

010 1975 S 5C PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

 

Most of the coins in my submission were hand picked by me from old collections and from albums and mint/proof sets. Most of the toning on these coins match colors and patterns that they have graded in the past. Especially the Ikes. They have tell tale Dansco toning. None has wild toning on them.

 

Be careful, it appears they have tighten down the hatches in regards to toned coins and their views towards market acceptability.

 

Its a sad day... now I expect every coin submitted in a total of 4 orders to come back AT as well....

[TomB]

I just got my grades today and 10 out of 10 are AT...

 

001 1971 S SILVER $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

002 1971 D $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

003 1976 S T-2 CLAD $1 PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

004 1976 S SILVER $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

005 1978 S $1 PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

006 1965 50C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

007 1976 S CLAD 25C PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

008 1958 10C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

009 1959 5C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

010 1975 S 5C PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

 

Most of the coins in my submission were hand picked by me from old collections and from albums and mint/proof sets. Most of the toning on these coins match colors and patterns that they have graded in the past. Especially the Ikes. They have tell tale Dansco toning. None has wild toning on them.

 

Be careful, it appears they have tighten down the hatches in regards to toned coins and their views towards market acceptability.

 

Its a sad day... now I expect every coin submitted in a total of 4 orders to come back AT as well....

 

That is a pretty amazing and unfortunate run of coins in that submission. Would you be any chance have quality images of the coins? If so, I would love to see them. Thank you.

[WoodenJefferson]

For moderns, it's a sign of the times.

[x2rider]

O wow . That is unfortunate .

I wonder if when they are grading a lot and have the first few AT that they cannot in some way be biased towards AT for the rest of the order.

 

Pics would be god if you can

 

Martin

[TonerGuy]

I usually dont image until after they come back... bad idea I now realize, but I have had only 1 coin come back in a BB when I was submitting on a regular basis...and I did have reservations about that coin.

 

I might agree about the modern issue except for the 65 Kennedy, 58 Roosie & 59 Jeff... but perhaps 2xrider is correct about AT bias.

 

What sucks now is that I have to break 10 coins out of slabs... I just sent them a email changing the rest of my orders to no net grading...

 

 

[Coindude]

We would love to see pictures. Without that it's kinda hard to tell if the grading was harsh, at least in our opinions.

[TonerGuy]

We would love to see pictures. Without that it's kinda hard to tell if the grading was harsh, at least in our opinions.

 

I just wanted to warn others. In over 5 yrs of submitting coins, I have had about a 200+ to 3 graded vs. AT record with NGC & PCGS. I am confident in my abilities to detect NT vs AT, or at least I was, when it came to what was MA with NGC. Its been about 5 yrs since I submitted anything though. Many of these coins that were just bagged were coins that had been sitting in 2x2s since then.

 

So now I realize that grading standards have changed. My bad.

 

Im not mad at NGC, though I am disappointed. This may actually cause my entire collecting focus to change. I will await the next invoice results since all of those coins are pre-1955 so this might just be a modern issue.

[physics-fan3.14]

Can't really tell you anything without pictures except that sucks.

[PCcoins]

That sounds ridiculous, especially if you know what you are doing. I've never had trouble getting toned coins graded, besides the last two submissions I had pcgs not grade 1 Jefferson and ngc not grade 2 Jeffersons because of AT. I picked the coins from old albums myself and I know they are NT. I guess the TPG's have had trouble grading toned nickels lately.

[kryptonitecomics]

I haven't had the same experience with NGC though I don't typically submit coins newer then the late 50's so I don't know if something set off the AT alert since they were moderns and colorful but I agree with others that I would love to see images so I could figure out if I agreed with NGCs position

[Bruceswar]

That sucks... but images are the only way for us to see. Bummer!

[thecoinczar]

Considering where you acquired the coins I would agree with you that they are most likely NT. The fact that NGC called your coins AT angers me immensely and I am getting more frustrated over this NT vs. AT thing. I think that the graders need to chill out on this issue. They have become so anal over the most trivial things and that is why I have never sent any coins into the TPGs. I'm going to wait for them to get off of their high horse and become decent about grading coins because they are out of bounds right now and I wouldn't want to get more disgusted than I already am!

[TomB]

Considering where you acquired the coins I would agree with you that they are most likely NT. The fact that NGC called your coins AT angers me immensely and I am getting more frustrated over this NT vs. AT thing. I think that the graders need to chill out on this issue. They have become so anal over the most trivial things and that is why I have never sent any coins into the TPGs. I'm going to wait for them to get off of their high horse and become decent about grading coins because they are out of bounds right now and I wouldn't want to get more disgusted than I already am!

 

If you want a TPG to grade anything with respect to toning or color then there are certification services that appear to do just that. However, they do not have much respect in the market. These two issues are somewhat related.

[TonerGuy]

Considering where you acquired the coins I would agree with you that they are most likely NT. The fact that NGC called your coins AT angers me immensely and I am getting more frustrated over this NT vs. AT thing. I think that the graders need to chill out on this issue. They have become so anal over the most trivial things and that is why I have never sent any coins into the TPGs. I'm going to wait for them to get off of their high horse and become decent about grading coins because they are out of bounds right now and I wouldn't want to get more disgusted than I already am!

 

Im just a collector and rarely if ever sell for profit. I dont try to "get" questionable monster toned coins into plastic to sell on EBay. Personally I dont like having questionably toned coins in slabs as a part of my collection. These coins were hand picked and submitted to be part of a couple of Registry sets. When purchasing raw coins, I try to choose coins that have matching toning patterns and subdued colors - for this exact reason.

 

I know it really doesnt make sense to submit most moderns for grading for any other reason that if I ever had to sell them someone would feel comfortable about buying them. And it certainly doesnt make sense for me to try and resubmit these to NGC so I can spend more money.

 

I will post pics when I get them back so you guys can comment. I plan on taking all ten of them by the NGC table at Long Beach with the other examples that have similar colors and patterns of toning that have been graded by NGC and seeing what they have to say. May be they will reconsider. May be they wont.

[mikesartifacts]

That sounds ridiculous, especially if you know what you are doing. I've never had trouble getting toned coins graded, besides the last two submissions I had pcgs not grade 1 Jefferson and ngc not grade 2 Jeffersons because of AT. I picked the coins from old albums myself and I know they are NT. I guess the TPG's have had trouble grading toned nickels lately.

 

Sorry to hear that TG...

 

I was a bit more fotunate, in 44 toners submitted I received 3 AT Net details grade coins, yet 2 of those came from 38-64 Jefferson set that was put together in the late 60's and housed in a Capital holder of which 80% had some nice colors. I sent in 18 Jeffersons from that set. These were received the first week of January of this year so pretty recent.

 

The remainder of the toners were also hand picked and from the same source (a known toned coin hoarder).

 

Mike

[mikesartifacts]

Considering where you acquired the coins I would agree with you that they are most likely NT. The fact that NGC called your coins AT angers me immensely and I am getting more frustrated over this NT vs. AT thing. I think that the graders need to chill out on this issue. They have become so anal over the most trivial things and that is why I have never sent any coins into the TPGs. I'm going to wait for them to get off of their high horse and become decent about grading coins because they are out of bounds right now and I wouldn't want to get more disgusted than I already am!

 

I feel similarly... It is a shame too because I buy and collect toners exclusively, and 90% of the zingers I have all get sent to NGC in hopes of garnering a STAR. If PCGS offered STAR designations for eye appeal I might be inclined to send more their way, but now I 'm not sure what to do - especially when faced with rather large certification fees when sending in 20 or 30 coins in at a time.

[MarkFeld]

Considering where you acquired the coins I would agree with you that they are most likely NT. The fact that NGC called your coins AT angers me immensely and I am getting more frustrated over this NT vs. AT thing. I think that the graders need to chill out on this issue. They have become so anal over the most trivial things and that is why I have never sent any coins into the TPGs. I'm going to wait for them to get off of their high horse and become decent about grading coins because they are out of bounds right now and I wouldn't want to get more disgusted than I already am!

That sounds very unfair, considering you don't even know what the coins look like.

 

There are numerous instances in which coins are naturally toned, but don't appear so. And the graders must make their assessments, based on what the coins actually look like. Obviously, they can't base their opinions on factors they are unaware of, such as how the coins have been stored over the years.

[coinman_23885]

Considering where you acquired the coins I would agree with you that they are most likely NT. The fact that NGC called your coins AT angers me immensely and I am getting more frustrated over this NT vs. AT thing. I think that the graders need to chill out on this issue. They have become so anal over the most trivial things and that is why I have never sent any coins into the TPGs. I'm going to wait for them to get off of their high horse and become decent about grading coins because they are out of bounds right now and I wouldn't want to get more disgusted than I already am!

 

With all due to respect to you and the original poster, while the coins may have come from an album, how do you know that they were not treated with a chemical previously to enhance natural album toning?

[TonerGuy]

With all due to respect to you and the original poster, while the coins may have come from an album, how do you know that they were not treated with a chemical previously to enhance natural album toning?

 

If you collect toned coins and have looked at enough toned coins of a particular series you can start to notice patterns in regards to colors and patterns. For instance, Dansco albums impart a golden rim with rainbow highlights with pink/blue centers on clad coins.

 

Whitman albums also impart certain colors and patterns just as WRaymond albums do... Just as Capitol Plastics holders do. Different environments do tone coins differently but not vastly differently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jom]

For instance, Dansco albums impart a golden rim with rainbow highlights with pink/blue centers on clad coins.

 

You mean like this:

 

 

and this:

 

 

jom

[Mark T]

Considering where you acquired the coins I would agree with you that they are most likely NT. The fact that NGC called your coins AT angers me immensely and I am getting more frustrated over this NT vs. AT thing. I think that the graders need to chill out on this issue. They have become so anal over the most trivial things and that is why I have never sent any coins into the TPGs. I'm going to wait for them to get off of their high horse and become decent about grading coins because they are out of bounds right now and I wouldn't want to get more disgusted than I already am!

 

With all the sophisticated coin doctors TPG’s have to be ultra conservative with toned coins. What benefit would there be if TPGS were to loosen up the grading standards? If you can think of a good one please let us know.

[TonerGuy]

 

You mean like this:

 

 

and this:

 

 

jom

 

Exactly.... Thats very nice Dansco toning as I call it.

 

Its no different the concentric rainbow circles you see on 1970-S proof Lincolns or the rainbow obverse rim toning on the 1974-S proof brown box Ikes. Certain storage methods = certain toning patterns/colors.

 

With all the sophisticated coin doctors TPG’s have to be ultra conservative with toned coins. What benefit would there be if TPGS were to loosen up the grading standards? If you can think of a good one please let us know.

 

Why ? They arent ultra conservative with dipped coins ? Dipping=doctoring in my book - applying chemicals to the surface of a coin to enhance its appearance and marketability. If TPGs had graders that were toning experts they wouldnt have to loosen any standards.

 

The benefit is money. The one reason why I sent coins to NGC is because they werent run by the guy that claimed "all rainbow toned Peace $" are AT. That statement says we arent toned coin friendly. A credible 3rd party TPG that specialized in toned coins would make money. No different than CAC is making money.

[Schatzy]

Just sent in 3 toned proofs to NGC 1/17/11 all came back graded!!

[djdilliodon]

I got 40 coins at NGC right now with about 30 ish coins all being toners. Im not worried at all and im willing to bet every single one slabs

[RockMyAmadeus]

You guys are mean.

 

[TonerGuy]

Hey I hope you guys have better luck than me. Im not a hater. I hope everyone's toners come back graded and not AT. That would be great. The more toners in slabs the greater the market the greater the acceptance the greater the value. Down with Whitey !

 

I still have 3 orders waiting.... I can only hope I am as fortunate.

 

Just sent in 3 toned proofs to NGC 1/17/11 all came back graded!!

 

Show-off ! And perhaps that was my mistake !! 1/17/11 and they are graded already ! I obviously didnt spend enough in grading fees !! Congrats !

[Schatzy]

.

 

Show-off ! And perhaps that was my mistake !! 1/17/11 and they are graded already ! I obviously didnt spend enough in grading fees !! Congrats !

 

They did go under the early bird (freebie submission). They were received at NGC on 1/17/11 and they were shipped today!!

[leeg]

This one was graded just last month:

 

 

[Toaster-migration]

i sent in a toned Mercury that sat in a whitman folder for 50 years and it came back AT.

 

i will never waste my money on a slab or a membership again.

 

i took it out of the slab and put it back in the folder.

 

i dont waste money playing the resubmit game over and over.

 

the coin was examined by Dave Lange first because it may have been a variety and he emailed me that the coin has the natural tones expected for this coin and then the grading room bags it as AT.

 

not happy about wasting my money on slabs and postage/return postage/insurance...etc...

 

will not do it ever again.

 

 

 

 

[thecoinczar]

I suppose you are right about that, but how many coin doctors are there who can do the work that would make coins look NT. That would affect a small percentage of the coins out in the market. Most all others are obviously ATed leaving ones that are borderline AT/NT. That can't be all that many either. So in other words, the TPGs are allowing a small percentage of ATed coins to influence their conduction of business. That's what I think anyway.