• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

1999 Silver Dollar flying high???

Started by OU812-migration,

23 posts in this topic

JStull

JStull

Posted
Posted
The 1999 ms70 silver eagle is listed as $16,880.00.

 

ROFL @ 'not high'

 

I did say bullion strikes compared to burnished, and the prices are for under the extorted 70 prices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OU812-migration

OU812-migration

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thank you all for the input so far - but there must be a reason for the dramatic rise. Did a ship sink or a train fall into a volcano? There has to be a reason to cause such a rise.

I was also referring to the MS70 series as well (listed above by Southflorida Guy) $16,880.00 is a lot of money for a coin that is only 12 years old and had a fairly decent number of MS coins issued. If anyone can name a reason that would be great.

Again - thank you all for your input.

OU812

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cpm9ball

cpm9ball

Posted
Posted
Thank you all for the input so far - but there must be a reason for the dramatic rise. Did a ship sink or a train fall into a volcano? There has to be a reason to cause such a rise.

I was also referring to the MS70 series as well (listed above by Southflorida Guy) $16,880.00 is a lot of money for a coin that is only 12 years old and had a fairly decent number of MS coins issued. If anyone can name a reason that would be great.

Again - thank you all for your input.

OU812

 

That seller is probably hoping to find a couple of bidiots.

 

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JStull

JStull

Posted
Posted
cpm9ball - so is it safe to say that if I had one or two of the MS70 1999's that I wouldn't be able to sell them at that price (or even close to it)?

Thanks

 

They're not worth that kind of money.

 

There are also no completed eBay sales for MS or PR 70 1999 ASEs in the past 4 days, in either NGC or PCGS slabs.

 

What the seller(s) are asking for in their listings are not necessarily going to be what they actually sell the item for, if it sells at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

I see now that you are writing about the MS70 1999 ASEs. In the future, it would be best to tell folks in the first post if you are writing about a specific grade or about the issue in general. The NGC price guide lists this at $16,880 and this is quite a jump from less than a year ago when it was still priced at $6,000 or so. Why the rise in listed price? I don't know, but I would guess the price was influenced dramatically by the NGC MS70 1999 ASE prices that Heritage has sold at auction over the past year. They list five sales in the last year plus at $27,600 (pop one at the time); $20,700 (still pop one); $17,250 (still pop one); $25,300 (still pop one) and $18,400 this month at Tampa FUN (still pop one). I guess we know why the price is so high then-the coin is a pop one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OU812-migration

OU812-migration

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Hello Tom

Thank you - I will put that type of information in my posts in the future.

Quick question for you - what is "pop one"?

I am new (obviously) to the coin collection world and was just taken back

when I saw the pricing on several of the MS70 Silver Eagle Dollars.

Also - what are the sales at Heritage?

Thank you

OU812

Link to comment
Share on other sites
x2rider

x2rider

Posted
Posted
JStull - so when I look up the historical pricing on the NGC web site and see the historic rise in the "value" of a Silver Eagle that is not the "value"? Then why do they publish it?

Thanks

OU812

 

Don't know about the eagles but OU812 was a great album by Van Halen :headbang:

 

Welcome to the boards :hi:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted

I believe he means finest known and there are no other specimens at that grade level. If that is true then all five of those prices were for te same coin. From $27,600 to $16,000. Looks to me like the price is falling not rising.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

"Pop one" means population of one in that grade. Since this is the highest grade that can be awarded (MS70) for business strike coinage and since it is a pop one that means that no other 1999 ASE has received the grade of MS70 from NGC. Incidentally, none has been graded MS70 at PCGS. Therefore, this price of $16,880 is based upon the sales history of a single coin that has been repeatedly sold by Heritage over the last year in various public auctions. Heritage is the largest coin auction house in the world, to my knowledge, and they allow one to register for free on their site and then check out their extensive auction archive. I retrieved these prices from their auction archive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted
TomB - one other thing - if that MS70 was pop one - then how can one differentiate other MS70 ASE's that are out there? I would love to make sure I am buying something in the MS70 state that has some value.

Thank you

OU812

 

I don't understand your question in this post. There is a single coin of this date and series graded MS70 by either PCGS or NGC. Therefore, if you are going to buy an MS70 of this date and this series then it has to be that single coin. Regardless, I believe that for the vast majority of folks out there that purchasing MS70 graded bullion is a terrific way to lose your investment dollars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OU812-migration

OU812-migration

Posted
  • Author
Posted

TomB

Perfect - I completely understand now - your comment on buying MS70 bullion put it all together for me - there is only one MS70 ASE in 1995 that can fetch that price. Got it.

 

I am still curious though. Here is an example - you go to ebay and see a listed 2006w ASE MS70 ultra cameo and plug the NGC catalog number into the NGC web site and it spits back a picture of that exact item and it is listed (on NGC) as a MS70 2006w and it

lists a value of $108 - that is the value of that coin - correct? But then how does one know the difference in the value of "all" of the MS70 2006w's that are out there and listed (or is there technically only a certain number of MS70's for each release?)

I guess what I am trying to ask is how does one buy the highest valued coin in an ASE and not - as you put it - lose my investment?

 

Thank you so much for your help

OU812

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted
TomB

Perfect - I completely understand now - your comment on buying MS70 bullion put it all together for me - there is only one MS70 ASE in 1995 that can fetch that price. Got it.

 

I am still curious though. Here is an example - you go to ebay and see a listed 2006w ASE MS70 ultra cameo and plug the NGC catalog number into the NGC web site and it spits back a picture of that exact item and it is listed (on NGC) as a MS70 2006w and it

lists a value of $108 - that is the value of that coin - correct? But then how does one know the difference in the value of "all" of the MS70 2006w's that are out there and listed (or is there technically only a certain number of MS70's for each release?)

I guess what I am trying to ask is how does one buy the highest valued coin in an ASE and not - as you put it - lose my investment?

 

Thank you so much for your help

OU812

I highlighted a portion of text in bold just to let you know that the MS grade category and the ultra cameo designation are mutually exclusive. You cannot have a regular business strike MS coin receive the ultra cameo designation. However, proof coinage is eligible for the ultra cameo designation. The point I am getting at here is that there are both MS and PR coins made for these ASEs so it is important to keep the terminology consistent or else there can be quite bit of confusion among the participants in the discussion.

 

The example of value that you use here with the 2006-W ASE in MS70 at $108 on the NGC site is a perfect example of how any price guide works. NGC has decided from their research that a 2006-W ASE should be worth roughly $108, but PCGS might list a different price on their site and any other published guide might list other prices, too. Price guides are not an exact science and are only meant to be an approximation of value. Coins that can be largely considered interchangable, such as modern bullion coinage, typically trade within a rather narrow band of value for each issue in each grade. This is not the case for pieces that are significantly different from like-graded examples, but modern bullion has few examples of this aspect.

 

If you are attempting to buy value without understanding all the aspects of grading, price guides or the market then I would strongly advise you to purchase ungraded bullion at a few dollars over its spot value. I have been in coins for many years and yet I still buy ungraded bullion because it is a better value, in my opinion, than graded bullion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Conder101

Conder101

Posted
Posted
then how can one differentiate other MS70 ASE's that are out there?

If it was possible to give a meaningful answer to that question, and there were other MS70 1999 ASE's out there, they would have very quickly been rooted out and slabbed. Basically the way an MS70 ASE get made is a dealer picks up one or more green monster boxes. He goes through them and cherry picks out the ones that he feels are the nicest pieces in the box(es). Then he sends them as a bulk submission to the TPG and starts praying that they will decide to give one or more of the the magic MS70 grade. It's happening more and more with the recent ones but the older ones just don't come as 70's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SouthFlorida guy

SouthFlorida guy

Posted
Posted
Regardless, I believe that for the vast majority of folks out there that purchasing MS70 graded bullion is a terrific way to lose your investment dollars.

 

Can you elaborate on your opinion, in regards to the above quote?

 

thnx

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

My opinion regarding the ability to lose money buying MS70 graded bullion is based upon previous and subtle TPG standards changes. Over time the TPGs get momentarily a little more liberal in their grading and momentarily a little more conservative in their grading of certain series or grade ranges. Many folks believe that the overall trend through the years has been to become somewhat more lenient or liberal with respect to the grading of coins. This is one of several reasons why coins in older generation holders maintain such a cache with many collectors. This is also only natural given the human grading aspect of each company.

 

Two examples of this would be with very high end, mint state, silver Washington quarters (WQs) and with proof Ike dollars. The dates are approximate, but from about 1986-1998 there was only a single silver (1932-1964) WQ graded MS68 by PCGS. Then a second and third were made. Shortly thereafter, in a period of perhaps two years, a relatively large number of MS68 PCGS graded silver WQs were made. The number may have been as high as two dozen. This was followed, again if I recall correctly, by a rather abrupt halt to newly produced MS68 WQs so that the frequency of this grade fell off quite a bit once again. Of course there are many who collect these coins and many who have the knowledge to pour through thousands of pieces in search of the elusive MS68 grade, but I think if one were to study population vs. time then one might discover a real spike over a short period of time for this grade in this series. There may have been a short term price decrease in this grade for this series, but the popularity of the series might be able to absorb the produced coins

 

A second example is with proof Ike dollars. In this case I might be entirely wrong and it might be proof JFK halves, but I do believe it is one or the other. Again, the uber-graded coins of PR70DCAM sell for stellar money, but I think they were produced in one or two discrete timeframes. I am not nearly as familiar with this niche, but I have read some grousing in the past about the quality of some of these coins and the mention that it had not been as high as it might have aspired to be on average. The numbers produced for this series were large enough to keep prices lower than for MS68 WQs.

 

What these two series show is that there might be spikes in population for the highest graded coins (or for any grade, for that matter) and that this spike in population might or might not coincide with a change in standards or perceived standards. For coins that are thinly traded such as the highest graded bullion then these changes might signal a strong downward price adjustment. Again, if you want ASEs for their bullion content then it is tough to beat the value of buying them raw and keeping them raw, but once you start the pop one chase then your investment is almost entirely made up of the prevailing standards of the TPGs and the market acceptance of those standards and those TPGs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing