Here is an analysis of grade_it's twelve Roosevelt dimes, graded by PCGS

[grade it-migration]

Cool, proofs it is. The proofs that were sent to James had to have changed in the holder. Please tell us how you know PCGS caused this. Grade it stated he bought these holdered. How do we know who spit on them? It's not possible to know this.

 

Grade it said he has bought some and made some and I know that to be the truth. Additionally, I sent 100 MS coins I picked out of 20 rolls or so belonging to Gade it. One thing is for sure, NONE of them had hairline patches on them. Yet, when they were returned, many of them did.

I'm still on proofs. I must have missed where grade it said he made some 70's.

Are any of those the ones that went to James? Can't find where he said that.

You didn't bother to answer my questions on the proofs and I don't blame you because there is little more you could say about how PCGS messed up these coins. If you are done with proofs I'll move on to MS.

 

 

I did make some proofs the highest I ever made was a 69dcam in the pre 1973 years

 

I never made a 70 all where bought.

 

Would you like me to photo all 160 I have IMHO and Mikes opinion are not 70's. That where graded to the PCGS standards prior to 1/17/11...?

[Frank Provasek]

If a single grader has an accuracy rate of 85%, adding a second independent grader with 85% accuracy will give a total accuracy of 97.75% and a third independent grader will give a total accuracy of 99.6%

 

The odds of all 3 graders getting it wrong are 1 in 296.

[James_OldeTowne]

If a single grader has an accuracy rate of 85%, adding a second independent grader with 85% accuracy will give a total accuracy of 97.75% and a third independent grader will give a total accuracy of 99.6%

I agree. That's why a coin would have to be sent in three times to achieve the 99.6% accuracy rate. The 85% accuracy rate that I stated already accounts for having had three graders look at the coin.

 

This is playing mere odds, however, and not statistics. Each grader by himself might have odds of only 70% of nailing the exact grade correctly, while three graders together might push the odds up to 85%. But due to experience and expertise, their odds are not based purely on chance. There is at least some tendency to get the grade right (at least, there'd better be).

[grade it-migration]

99% accurate standards to produce coins in TPG holders market graded with ANA numbers..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[e1cnr]

thanks for all the time/effort in your photos James - the blow-ups are killer

 

 

I am starting to believe grading companies are an elaborate scam

- based on a desire to lower the probability of the bigger scam of many raw coin sellers, and telemarketing coin investment scams

 

 

the importance of hairlines in grading is subjective

- I am guessing the process if shipping raw coins in hard flips,

remove them to grade, return them to next grader, ... to slabber

adds to number if hairlines

 

but does it matter if you are grading on a macroscopic/visible level?

[grade it-migration]

thanks for all the time/effort in your photos James - the blow-ups are killer

 

 

I am starting to believe grading companies are an elaborate scam

- based on a desire to lower the probability of the bigger scam of many raw coin sellers, and telemarketing coin investment scams

 

 

the importance of hairlines in grading is subjective

- I am guessing the process if shipping raw coins in hard flips,

remove them to grade, return them to next grader, ... to slabber

adds to number if hairlines

 

but does it matter if you are grading on a macroscopic/visible level?

 

The coins James graded where sent bulk in tubes.

 

The difference between a buyer and seller is magnification.

 

From the pcgs web site http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article23.chtml

 

MS-66 - Must have above average quality of strike and full original mint luster, with no more than two or three minor but noticeable contact marks. A few very light hairlines may show under magnification, or there may be one or two light scuff marks showing on frosted surfaces or in the field. The eye appeal must be above average and very pleasing for the date and mint. Copper coins display full original or lightly toned color as appropriate.

 

 

[coinman1794]

My experience with searching unc rolls of silver Roosevelt dimes (and rolls are usually the source of white coins like the ones in this thread) has been that a very large number of them have minimal to severe traces of counting wheel damage, in the form of light hairlines on the cheek and/or torch. Counting wheel hairlines are common on coins certified as high as MS66. It is largely up for debate what affect this ubiquitous problem should have on grade (in fact the problem is largely unknown). I find that NGC is much stricter, limiting the grade of coins with these hairlines to MS64-66, when they otherwose may have been MS67+.

 

[grade it-migration]

My experience with searching unc rolls of silver Roosevelt dimes (and rolls are usually the source of white coins like the ones in this thread) has been that a very large number of them have minimal to severe traces of counting wheel damage, in the form of light hairlines on the cheek and/or torch. Counting wheel hairlines are common on coins certified as high as MS66. It is largely up for debate what affect this ubiquitous problem should have on grade (in fact the problem is largely unknown). I find that NGC is much stricter, limiting the grade of coins with these hairlines to MS64-66, when they otherwose may have been MS67+.

 

Yes you are absolutely right on these counting wheel hair lines.as I have searched thousands of rolls of Roosevelt dimes.

 

I had 450 returned in body bags for hairlines out of 487 from PCGS on one of my first submissions last April. (ask Miles)

 

I had a very expensive lesson that hairlines are not allowed at a ms65 level...

 

These body bagged coins where viewed at the ANA summer seminar by willing instructors and other world class graders, out of the class room and deemed to have hairlines..(For some unknown reason it took 3 months to find out why there where body bagged from PCGS)

 

I can tell you first hand that these hairlines were not allowed by PCGS in April.

 

The issue is that 100 coins where pre screened by Mike Ellis from 950 I sent to him raw and not dipped pre sorted from 25,000. He submitted them with my submission form.

 

They where dipped by PCGS on my OK and many where encapsulated with hairlines having not being submitted by Mike with hairlines.

 

All I can say is in April hairlines where not allowed and in November they are.

 

I have no first hand knowledge of how direct costs where saved, in this September 2010 statement by PCGS.

 

Operational and Financial Highlights:( the second paragraph link below.)

 

The gross profit margin in the first quarter was 61% of revenues, as compared to 60% in the prior year quarter. The gross profit margin improvement was driven by further reduction in our direct costs per coin unit graded and authenticated, offset by a lower average service fee.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=80247&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1492321&highlight=