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Toned Coins & NGC....

Started by TonerGuy,

19 posts in this topic

TonerGuy

TonerGuy

Posted
Posted

I havent been around for a while and have been busy with other things.

 

I have caught up on all the gossip and changes in the industry...Cameron's untimely demise brought me out of just lurking...

 

Recently I heard that PCGS is basically harder on toned coins now then ever before. With David Hall pontificating that my beloved toned Peace $ are ALL artificially toned... lol. Sure Dave...

 

Has NGC basically taken then same approach with toners as well ? Are they following PCGS's lead in this issue or are they bucking the trend and still grading toned coins ?

 

Are there series that they are harder on then others, or types of toning that are just not grading ?

 

Inquiring minds what to know...

 

 

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

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I don't know if it is any indication, but I've seen quite a few Morgan toners in the EdgeView slab which was only introduced about two years ago. Perhaps Shane, aka Kryptonitecomics, or Paul, aka Lehigh96, could provide more input about this. I think they may be submitting raw toners for grading more than others.

 

Chris

 

107547.jpg.1848f7d8ab187f38a50990192a2b4ae9.jpg

107548.jpg.e370bd579a6da49f0bccbe7f2ecc3d3c.jpg

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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NGC has been pretty consistant with their grading of toners but clearly not with regards to their use of the star designation. PCGS seems to be overly critical of anything toned and I have seen many coins bagged that looked completely legit to me. Personally I would not send a toned coin to PCGS if I could avoid it as I just don't think there are getting a fair look now that the genuine holders came out.

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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Thank you Shane -

 

What about ANACS ? Are they unusually more difficult with toners or have they been consistent as well ? And by the way which are the newer slabs - the yellow or the blue inserts ?

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ant

ant

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i dont think toned coins should be graded. by them grading a single one they are saying they know for a fact that the tone is natural. in the last few years the toned market has gone wild and i think ngc is just market grading them so people will send more in.ebay all i seem to see is TONED in every listing.

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TomB

TomB

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i dont think toned coins should be graded. by them grading a single one they are saying they know for a fact that the tone is natural. in the last few years the toned market has gone wild and i think ngc is just market grading them so people will send more in.ebay all i seem to see is TONED in every listing.

 

If you use your logic then I guess that white or untoned coins should not be graded, either, since by grading them NGC is saying that they know that they haven't been dipped.

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

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Thank you Shane -

 

What about ANACS ? Are they unusually more difficult with toners or have they been consistent as well ? And by the way which are the newer slabs - the yellow or the blue inserts ?

 

 

I have never submitted a coin to anacs so I don't know how consistant they have been over the past few years. based on buying toned coins in anacs holders I would say they are more likely to grade toners then PCGS by a wide margain. I would also say there may be a high percentage chance of getting an AT coins in one of their holders but that is more of a gut feeling.

 

The Yellow labels are the newest as the blue lable came out when they originally designed the new slab. I don't have a preference between slab labels as I try to look at each coin on a case by case basis. (thumbs u

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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I recently assisted someone in determining what coins from his collection to send to NGC, and am glad to report 10 of 10 graded :banana: .

 

Six of the ten coins were heavily toned Morgan dollars, and they had no problems getting into holders. They were only average... I think a couple of 64s and the rest 63s. But I knew they would be good sellers for him, and he did very well.

 

So I don't think NGC is being ridiculously paranoid or anything like that.

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Coinsman63

Coinsman63

Posted
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I havent been around for a while and have been busy with other things.

 

I have caught up on all the gossip and changes in the industry...Cameron's untimely demise brought me out of just lurking...

 

Recently I heard that PCGS is basically harder on toned coins now then ever before. With David Hall pontificating that my beloved toned Peace $ are ALL artificially toned... lol. Sure Dave...

 

Has NGC basically taken then same approach with toners as well ? Are they following PCGS's lead in this issue or are they bucking the trend and still grading toned coins ?

 

Are there series that they are harder on then others, or types of toning that are just not grading ?

 

Inquiring minds what to know...

 

 

If they are, that would hurt this guys eBay sales:

 

Monster Tones(?) Yeah Right

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

Posted
Posted
I havent been around for a while and have been busy with other things.

 

I have caught up on all the gossip and changes in the industry...Cameron's untimely demise brought me out of just lurking...

 

Recently I heard that PCGS is basically harder on toned coins now then ever before. With David Hall pontificating that my beloved toned Peace $ are ALL artificially toned... lol. Sure Dave...

 

Has NGC basically taken then same approach with toners as well ? Are they following PCGS's lead in this issue or are they bucking the trend and still grading toned coins ?

 

Are there series that they are harder on then others, or types of toning that are just not grading ?

 

Inquiring minds what to know...

 

 

If they are, that would hurt this guys eBay sales:

 

Monster Tones(?) Yeah Right

 

The auctions all state:

 

A Marvelous addition to any Toned Collection

An Incredible work of Art

 

I sense "mother nature" was not the artist!

 

What could be the possible explanation for coins less than a year old having that kind of crazy toning? Or does he not pretend they are naturally toned?

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ant

ant

Posted
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i dont think toned coins should be graded. by them grading a single one they are saying they know for a fact that the tone is natural. in the last few years the toned market has gone wild and i think ngc is just market grading them so people will send more in.ebay all i seem to see is TONED in every listing.

 

If you use your logic then I guess that white or untoned coins should not be graded, either, since by grading them NGC is saying that they know that they haven't been dipped.

 

they arent saying they havnt been dipped, they are saying if so the coin had been cleaned correctly. the oposite would be improperly cleaned. we all know that toning can hide underline problems. while dipping a coin brings them to a visable state. they could all be dipped and white if all i care. but tooooo many NEWER coins are being called toned and more and more are ending up in a slab due to market. also to purposly incorectly store a coin is doctoring in my mind.

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
Posted
i dont think toned coins should be graded. by them grading a single one they are saying they know for a fact that the tone is natural. in the last few years the toned market has gone wild and i think ngc is just market grading them so people will send more in.ebay all i seem to see is TONED in every listing.

 

If you use your logic then I guess that white or untoned coins should not be graded, either, since by grading them NGC is saying that they know that they haven't been dipped.

 

they arent saying they havnt been dipped, they are saying if so the coin had been cleaned correctly. the oposite would be improperly cleaned. we all know that toning can hide underline problems. while dipping a coin brings them to a visable state. they could all be dipped and white if all i care. but tooooo many NEWER coins are being called toned and more and more are ending up in a slab due to market. also to purposly incorectly store a coin is doctoring in my mind.

 

 

The problems with your logic (there are many) is that coin albums, paper rolls, coin envelope were and are acceptable storage methods regardless of the fact that they are known to cause coins to tone. So in stating that incorrect storage is doctoring you imply that the vast majority of collectors over the past few hundred years are coin doctors and I don't think anyone would agree with that sentiment. (shrug)

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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i dont think toned coins should be graded. by them grading a single one they are saying they know for a fact that the tone is natural. in the last few years the toned market has gone wild and i think ngc is just market grading them so people will send more in.ebay all i seem to see is TONED in every listing.

 

One of the things that I like about toning - or maybe instead of toning we should refer to it as "orginal skin" is that it is evidence that no one has altered the coin in anyway. And that it has sat for a prolonged period of time undisturbed in an environment it belongs in - an album, a bag, a Capitol Plastics holder ect....

 

Dipping to me is doctoring. By dipping a coin you have applied chemicals to the surface of the coin with a specific purpose and intent - whether its to add color or remove tarnish - it is still doctoring. Leaving a coin in an album is not purposefully applying chemicals.

 

And as for toning being AT, NT or market acceptable, I can tell you that if you have enough exposure/experience in a certain series you can become an expert in toning patterns in that series. I might not know NT vs. AT Washington quarters but after looking at thousands of toned Peace $ over the past decade I can state that I can be certain about 90% of the time as to the question of NT vs. AT in regards to Peace $. And in some instances I can even tell you how the coin was stored and in what brand of album caused a particular pattern.

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leeg

leeg

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I sent this coin which was in a PCGS 64 holder to NGC as a Crossover a few months back:

 

 

1897pcobv1B.jpg

 

 

same coin just a shot to show the color:

 

 

1897pcobvm1A.jpg

 

 

This coin was graded this month:

 

 

64D_Kennedy_Obv_B.jpg

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TonerGuy

TonerGuy

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Well here's the answer to my original question....

 

I just got my grades today and 10 out of 10 are AT... Ouch.

 

001 1971 S SILVER $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

002 1971 D $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

003 1976 S T-2 CLAD $1 PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

004 1976 S SILVER $1 UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

005 1978 S $1 PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

006 1965 50C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

007 1976 S CLAD 25C PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

008 1958 10C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

009 1959 5C UNC DETAILS ARTIFICIAL TONING

010 1975 S 5C PROOF ARTIFICIAL TONING

 

 

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