The Mint and the ATB 5oz bullion Sets.

[Dudley the 1st]

I would like to hear commentary regarding the manner in which the mint released these items to selected minions and the financial rape of " collectors " . I know, one doesn't have to buy, no one is twisting anyone's arms, but I mean come on, this is price fixing and manipulation in collusion with the mint leadership.

[gmarguli]

They are released to their authorized bullion resellers. You can join this program if you like. I forget the exact numbers, but the minimum purchase is something like $2 million. Otherwise you have to pay market prices for them.

 

You can always contact your Congressman and let them know about their failure with the way this program works.

[Oldtrader3]

I wrote to the Foreign-Born-One about the lapses in his leadership and got a "thank you for your support" form letter in return. They obviously are not listening.

[cpm9ball]

I wrote to the Foreign-Born-One about the lapses in his leadership and got a "thank you for your support" form letter in return. They obviously are not listening.

 

They can't read either!

 

Chris

[Dcoin]

Why didn't the mint just sell from in-house and keep the profits? They sell everything else from their site?

 

Make no sense to me.

[Old Pueblo]

The power of lobbist is to seek special favors that benefit only their interest.

I wonder what congressman is behind this?

 

This stinks of that brown stuff!

 

OP

[RWB]

The mint had to buy a new, special press, have it built in to space in Philadelphia, train operators, secure planchets, etc., etc. to make these things due to the REQUIRED size.

 

Thank Sen John Barrasso [R-WY], and Sen Michael B. Enzi [R-WY], Sen Johnny Isakson [R-GA], Sen Tim Johnson [D-SD], and Rep Rep Michael N. Castle [R-DE] for this expensive and confusing mess.

 

Here is the related section of the law:

 

TITLE II--BULLION INVESTMENT PRODUCTS

SEC. 201. SILVER BULLION COIN.

Section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by inserting after subsection (t) (as added by section 101 of this Act) the following:

`(u) Silver Bullion Investment Product-

`(1) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall strike and make available for sale such number of bullion coins as the Secretary determines to be appropriate that bear the likeness of the quarter dollars issued under subsection (t), each of which shall--

`(A) have a diameter of 3.0 inches and weigh 8.0 ounces;

`(B) contain .999 fine silver;

`© bear the inscriptions of the fineness and weight of the bullion coin;

`(D) bear an inscription of the denomination of such coin, which shall be `quarter dollar'; and

`(E) not be minted or issued by the United States Mint as so-called `fractional' bullion coins or in any size other than the size described in paragraph (A).

`(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE- Bullion coins minted under paragraph (1)--

`(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate is issued; and

`(B) may only be available for sale during the year in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued.

`(3) DISTRIBUTION-

`(A) IN GENERAL- In addition to the authorized dealers utilized by the Secretary in distributing bullion coins and solely for purposes of distributing bullion coins issued under this subsection, the Director of the National Park Service, or the designee of the Director, may purchase numismatic items issued under this subsection, but only in units of no fewer than 1,000 at a time, and the Director, or the Director's designee, may resell or repackage such numismatic items as the Director determines to be appropriate.

 

PS: Please leave the political opinions out of the discussion.

[DWLange]

History repeats itself. More than 100 years ago the Mint was coping with hundreds of millions of unwanted and unneeded Morgan Dollars it was ordered to coin by Congress in a shameless subsidy to the silver mining interests. Today, the Mint is buried under hundreds of millions of brass-clad dollars that don't circulate because the paper vendors and other special interests block the discontinuance of paper one-dollar notes. The 5-oz silvers are burdensome to the Mint, as well, but this will all be forgotten by future generations of collectors who will know them only as desirable rarities. Morgan Dollars and 1930s commemoratives were denounced in their own time, but today all is forgiven.

[Conder101]

Why didn't the mint just sell from in-house and keep the profits? They sell everything else from their site?

Because the law only permits the distribution by the authorized distributors or by the Director of the National Park Service. See section 3 (A) posted by RWB above.

 

Actually the mint may HAVE to take the profits for themselves. They have stopped the distribution of the coins to the distributors due to outcry from collectors. Since by law they have to be sold before Jan 1 2011, and it has now been established that the market value of these sets is $1400 and up, if the Mint sells them to the distributors at a low price we would be right back where we were. So they would have to sell to them at say $1300, and let them make $100 while the public still has to pay $1400 and up. Profit going to the government instead of private industry or individuals. (The law does not specify what mark up the mint has to charge the distributors so charging them $1300 per set would be legal.)

 

Section of the law that requires them to be sold before the end of this year.

 

`(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE- Bullion coins minted under paragraph (1)–

 

`(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate is issued; and

 

`(B) may only be available for sale during the year in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued.

[RWB]

"May" is the weasel word. If it were absolutely required, the law should have said "shall."

 

The mint could simply not distribute the bullion version, or sell them next year along with the numismatic version.

 

They could also melt all except a couple for the SI-NNC, then issue 2.5 inch versions in 2011 in unlimited quantity. (They have presses that can make 2.5-inch .999 silver pieces.)

 

[Conder101]

Good point on the "may". They could use that to weasel out. In which case they could ignore the announced 30,000 each mintage and make it unlimited.

[RGT]

While the may/shall loophole could be a way out, I don't see anything quoted here that requires the coins to be minted this year, only sold this year. The mint could go back to it's old ways of doing pre-sales and delivering these some time next year. I recall waiting six months or more for proof set back in the day. Of course that may not go over well in today's instant gratification society.

 

I also noticed that you quoted that these slugs will be 8 oz. I assume that is a typo and these haven't expanded at the same rate as the deficit...

[Conder101]

I don't see anything quoted here that requires the coins to be minted this year, only sold this year.

That comes from a different part of the law, not the section that creates the hockey pucks.

US Code Title 31 subtitle IV Sec 5112 (d) (1)

 

....The coins have an inscription of the year of minting or issuance.

 

But there is a way to weasel in that part of the law as well starting at the next sentence.

 

However, to prevent or alleviate a shortage of a denomination, the Secretary may inscribe coins of the denomination with the year that was last inscribed on coins of the denomination.

The Secretary could declare a shortage of the hockey pucks which would let him freeze the date and strike more of the 2010 coins next year. One problem with that is the law specifies a shortage of the DENOMINATION, And I doubt you could make a case that there is a shortage of quarter dollars. Just 2010 hockey puck quarter dollars.)