Philadelphia Show Report

[TomB]

No doubt there are and will be plenty of show reports concerning the immediately concluded Philly Whitman show. My experience may not mirror the experience of any other single person, but I think it might help folks to read what went on from my point of view.

 

I hadn’t spent any time in Philly since the last ANA show that was held in the city and outside of that show it has been approximately twenty years since I have stepped foot within Philadelphia. In contrast, I have been a regular at the Baltimore shows for over a decade and am quite familiar with the immediate area around the Baltimore Convention Center. Additionally, Baltimore is quite close to Philly and in some ways I had been expecting a similar feel upon arrival. Therefore, I believe that at least some of my overall experience might have been influenced by my lack of familiarity and comfort with the host city and with comparisons that might be made to Baltimore.

 

I settled into my hotel room late Wednesday afternoon and shortly thereafter met up for a very entertaining and enjoyable evening with BigMoose. We always have a great time and I think it improves the overall experience at a show if one can arrive, have a good time and relax before the show. In my case it keeps me sharper later into the day. At the show I was fortunate enough to have my own quality inventory as well as some exceptional pieces entrusted to me by a number of consignors. This made the inventory more varied and interesting, in my opinion. The following are notes from the show that I made while exchanging inventory, greetings or stories.

 

-Quite a few dealers asked “Do you have any gold…” before anything else.

 

-Really attractive and original MS type in the $500-$5,000 range (the range that I prefer) was tougher to find than at any previous show I can recall.

 

-If you came to the show with $20,000 to spend on wonderful type then you were more likely to leave with a single coin purchased for the entire budget instead of leaving with four or five smaller purchases adding to the same total.

 

-Early in the show the bourse was quite hot and humid, which reflected the weather in Philly at the time, and the bourse floor was only sparsely attended. No doubt the fact that the show opened on a Thursday morning kept down attendance, but the weather likely did not help the show, either.

 

-I found it relatively easy to sell coins directly to dealers at the show while these very same coins can sometimes sit within a BST thread, at or very nearly at the same price, without a single comment from a possible buyer. This might be because of my limited skills as a photographer, might be a case of most people not reading the BST or might be that I know pretty well where to go on the bourse to sell a coin.

 

-It was alarming to note that several severely worked over coins were in problem-free NGC and PCGS holders. These were generally early type that did not carry a trivial price tag. This might be an example of “bad” coins being forced back onto the bourse and out of collections or it might signal a trend by the TPGs. I tend to think it is the former rather than the latter, but could be wrong.

 

-There were a few superb commems on the floor that were truly a treat to inspect. The highlight within this niche for me was a PCGS MS66 Connecticut with an otherworldly reverse paired with an obverse that was quite attractive in its own right.

 

-Over the years a stunning number of circulated Barber halves have been certified by the TPGs and these halves were sprinkled throughout the floor. Similarly, the offering of circulated Seated halves in TPG holders has started to ramp up significantly, too.

 

-On both Thursday and Friday it appeared that a higher percentage of collectors were asking for quite specific coins instead of asking for a range of pieces or giving a broad, generic answer. Perhaps collectors who attend these shows early are now more focused or are not as willing to attempt new series. Alternatively, my experience could have been due to random chance.

 

-Almost every coin I purchased at the show was later sold at the show to another dealer within two hours of acquisition. I specifically kept a few coins out of any offering so that they could be offered once the show ended.

 

-Old ANACS white case holder coins might be as scarce as PCGS rattler holder coins.

 

-Proof type that is superb appears to be a great area to buy at the moment.

 

-One extremely well known dealer had prices listed on coins that might as well have made your eyes pop out and this dealer appeared to be in no hurry to reduce the prices to reflect the market. During my two day stay I also noticed that this dealer was not typically crowded with folks asking about the inventory.

 

-Truly high quality coinage sold for exceptionally strong prices whereas pieces that fell short of the mark did not look to be moving even at their relatively more affordable prices. I noticed this firsthand from the ease with which most of my inventory sold and with how quickly my new purchases sold to other dealers.

 

-For the first time, I noticed some dealers selling old rolls of clad coinage at a premium. Please note that I have no idea if this coinage sold, but it was being offered at a stiff premium.

 

-Lots of bags of silver bullion and many individual silver rounds were being offered and those selling silver rounds appeared to be quite active throughout the show.

 

-I realize I wrote this previously, but it might need repeating; quality coinage was in extremely tight supply and those dealers who strive to handle great coins were lamenting this fact.

 

I enjoyed my stay at the show and spent quite a bit of time with forum members such as Tootawl, Broadstruck and BigMoose while several members who also had tables were generous enough with their time to allow me to inspect what they had for sale and to exchange tidbits of information. I won’t go through this list of dealers because it is quite long, but I believe that all would be immediately recognized for their contributions to the board, knowledge and personal integrity. I will, however, give a special shout out to John and Dave at Coin Rarities Online who have historically given me squatter’s rights as well to Bill of Numismatic Americana who always manages to teach me something no matter how hard I try not to learn.

 

[x2rider]

Thanks for the report Tom

As I can't get to any shows, it is always nice to read an incitful comment on the health of the hobby .

Was there much capped bust coinage around In nice AU?

Thanks Martin

[SkyMan]

Thank you for the report Tom. Did you have any soft pretzels?

[DaveG]

Thanks for the report, Tom!

 

Hope to see you at CoinFest!

[123cents]

Great report!

[tejas1836]

Thanks for an excellent show report.

 

Your comment about seeing several "worked over coins in problem free holders" is scary to me but I'm unclear about what you meant for possible reasons for this.

 

-It was alarming to note that several severely worked over coins were in problem-free NGC and PCGS holders. These were generally early type that did not carry a trivial price tag. This might be an example of “bad” coins being forced back onto the bourse and out of collections or it might signal a trend by the TPGs. I tend to think it is the former rather than the latter, but could be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Great report. As always, I'd love to see pictures of what you brought home.

[leeg]

Super info as usual Tom. (thumbs u

[Coinsman63]

Great report. Did you make an effort to sample the host city's famous staple?

 

Philly Cheesesteaks

[JIM F.]

Thanks for the report. Question for clarification -- you stated dealers were asking if you had any gold -- were they looking for bullion or "classic" type coins (liberty, indian) or

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

I did not have a single dealer ask me if I had gold. This was an odd show as selling quality items under $2.5K was almost impossible. Now selling quality items from $2.5K to $25K was a breeze. I did notice that this year more dealers that I've done business with where reaching for a gray sheet... Which on a few occasions meant I needed to see another dealer as I don't buy sheet coins. Comparing last years show to this one, I sold the same amount as last year. However last year I was out of items to sell in 3 hours, this year it took 3 days to place it all.

[Walkerfan]

Thanks for an excellent show report.

 

Your comment about seeing several "worked over coins in problem free holders" is scary to me but I'm unclear about what you meant for possible reasons for this.

 

-It was alarming to note that several severely worked over coins were in problem-free NGC and PCGS holders. These were generally early type that did not carry a trivial price tag. This might be an example of “bad” coins being forced back onto the bourse and out of collections or it might signal a trend by the TPGs. I tend to think it is the former rather than the latter, but could be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! That was a very interesting first hand report; it gives you the sense of being there and an idea of what is 'trendy' and happening in the current market. It sounds like you had a good time.

 

I think that what Tom means is that certain coins that continue to surface and then resurface at shows and auctions are the ones that are 'entombed', so to speak---they made it into holders with insert #s that they should never have made it into in the first place due to the subjectivity of the TPG companies and the luck of the submitters, so, they'll NEVER be cracked out or be attempted to upgrade. Then, when people realize this, they want to get rid of them and since they are in these numerically respected slabs; they use this just as the seller before them did to get more than they should for them, because they are NOT problem-free. Then, they use the money to purchase a better quality coin. I.E.---High quality coins will disappear into portfolios or collections for many years but not these other less-worthy coins; they will pop up repeatedly over the course of a year in their overgraded slab.

 

As for the second part of his statement, I believe that he is saying that, even though not a likely possibility, that maybe TPG are becoming more lax or less stringent in their grading practices and becoming more 'tolerant' of coins that are doctored in an attempt to make them 'market acceptable' coins---let's certainly hope not and, yes, that would scare me, too!!

 

 

[Scarsdale Coin]

Great report.... Phil seems to be a dealer to dealer wholesale business show with not as much retail traffic....however.... I invite you all to take the ride to Coinfest at the end of October...

 

Coinfest is geared to the collector and the feel of Coinfest is really neat...its a big show with a boutique feel.... hope we see ya there...

 

www.thecoinfest.com

 

[TomB]

Thank you all for the kind words and questions or comments.

 

I had not noticed any more AU Capped Bust coinage than at previous shows, but one must take into account that a high percentage of AU Capped Bust coinage has been dipped or otherwise lightened at one time in the past and for this reason I do not generally seek out this grade for these series. I did have a soft pretzel and purchased it at the Reading Terminal Market. They were just coming out of the oven and were being offered at 50 cents each. They were also being dipped in butter prior to sale, so I asked for and received a pretzel that was not dipped in butter.

 

I apologize for not being more clear with respect to the worked over coinage in problem-free holders. The two possible reasons that I first thought of for spotting these pieces were that the TPGs were allowing more problem pieces into problem-free holders or that collectors were making a conscious effort to sell off such problem coins in an attempt to buy quality coinage and, thus, the dealers on the bourse had a higher concentration of such coins than typical because they took the pieces in trade or purcahsed them at a discount. Hopefully, that was more clear. I believe Walkerfan hit the nail on the head regarding my original intent on that statement. I'm not a cheesesteak person, so no Philly cheesesteaks for me either in Philly or otherwise.

 

The questions regarding gold appeared to mean any gold for sale, be it certified classic gold or modern bullion. It is interesting that Broadstruck had a slightly different selling experience than mine and perhaps some of this was due to the fact that I roamed the floor freely during the opening hours of the show while Broadstruck appeared to be tethered to a table during that time. Otherwise the difference might have been due to our different niche specialties.

[JJSingleton]

Nice report Tom. Thanks for taking the time to share your observations.

[tejas1836]

Thanks Tom and Walkerfan for the clarification. I'm one of those babyboomers who took up a childhood hobby after a 40 plus year layoff.

 

Sometimes it gets to be a bit overwhelming trying to figure out the grading thing. I understand the subjective nature of grading and changing standards over time, but I still have a tough time with an AU58 becoming an MS coin due to market grading. I thought it was logical to think that a 58 was as far up the grading scale as a circulated coin could go.

 

The thought of some problem coins knowingly getting a pass into a problem free holder because of a changing standard is ..... well I don't like to think about it.