So I took a Mitigated Risk last night...

[BNBCoins.com-migration]

http://www.epier.com/BiddingForm_edit.asp?2017845

 

Someone posted the link on Coin Talk yesterday for a lot of five MS64 St. Gaudens (Raw) at a Buy it now of $3000 on this craigslist/ebay 2nd rate hybrid site, "ePier".

 

I spoke to Paypal first, learned about my Buyer Protection, and said, "Hey, what the heck, I have $3k handy and I'll pull the slots" and bought the coins.

 

An hour after, the seller, TheresaSales63, contacted me and said, "Thank you for buying the coins. i can expedite shipping for free! thank you"

 

I later e-mailed her and told her to call me. She later did, at 8 pm(After she said she got out of work).

 

She sent a paypal money request from: Jessica Garver(Who when asked said, was her "associate / sister-in-law")

 

I spoke with this "Theresa" on the phone at around 11:00 p.m(Later than she said she'd call) for about 10 minutes all while hearing a baby cry in the background. She said she'd ship the St. Gauden's out Saturday(Today), but if not, first thing Monday. The baby continued to cry as I said, "Ok, sounds good". Then we hung up.

 

Right after the call, I sent her $3000 via Paypal under: "Goods". (The right way to go when dealing with anyone you don't know, because if you send money as a "Gift" paypal will not protect you.)

 

She then e-mailed me back and said she received it, and that was it from there. Off to bed.

 

Today, I play Detective. I know my Paypal Buyer protections off hand, but I want to go further. I want to know who this woman is, if she's legit, and why in the heck did she call me from a Tennessee area code(Had an ex girlfriend from there, so I knew). So, I finally called that number back: "Thank you for calling Motel 6 by the Airport, please hold for your operator."

 

I at that moment felt my gut wrench. A dirty, nervous, slightly disturbed feeling entered my stomach. I was scammed.

 

I iimmediately phone Paypal, informing them of everything(as i've been doing throughout the entire process) that's been going on, and they said, "Don't worry, you're guaranteed your money back. Now since you filed the claim so early, we will put the funds you just sent her last night on hold."

 

I said, "Thanks." I told them I really wanted to give her a chance but there were just way too many red flags. She gets her money, and then disappears. No e-mails, nothing; and that Motel 6 thing was the deal sealer.

 

Heck, throughout this, even my attorney friend noted all the red flags but I decided to stay positive and continue to take this mitigated risk. Even Coin Talk found something fishy about it. But, I took the mitigated risk regardless and believed the better side of human nature for that moment. I smartly clipped the issue in the bud early however, but even if I waited a week and filed with Paypal, I still would have gotten my money back(but she'd have free money and that ain't happenin on my watch). Now what's to say she wouldn't/won't just send me a bag of rocks now that I made a stink of this so early? If she does, Paypal won't cover.(if I accept and sign for the pacakge).Unless, I open any package from her right in front of my local Postal Inspector and get a signature that he/she witnessed what I witnessed as the package was opened.

 

I had to get this case going early, to save Paypal money from their Insurance, to possibly expedite things for Long Beach, and I also don't want this fraudster getting free money. Hey look maybe she could be legit, maybe she really will send them Monday, and if that's the case, if I get 5 St Gaudens for an unbelievable low price, then yeah, I'll call the case right off, but for some reason, I don't think that's going to happen. We'll wait and see, but for now, I'm covered all the way.

 

Thus, I took a mitigated risk.

 

-Jarett

[BNBCoins.com-migration]

I really hope some of you learned something new about this, if not, let me first express my confidence in Paypal and how much they've stepped up their game on the Buyer Protection in recent years. I spoke to two supervisors who were very knowledgeable about the buyer protection policies and were more than willing to help me solve this problem.

 

I took this risk to hopefully put another fraudster behind bars(And hope Paypal prosecutes this woman to the fullest extent of Federal and State law which they said they will highly consider per the amount in this case). I took the risk to maybe score a "too good to be true" deal knowingly that I had no downside except have $3,000 tied up for a week most. My goal with this thread is to help educate any young numismatists and anyone who is weary about Paypal, their Buyer Protection program, and Fraud on the internet in General about the dangers out there.

 

Be safe guys, the internet is a BIG place.

 

Thank you.

[bsshog40]

It sounds like you went thru a lot of trouble and stress when you already had a gut feeling from the start when you called paypal about protection thinking it wasn't going to work out. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

[BNBCoins.com-migration]

Believe it or not bsshog40, I went through very little stress mentally. I was more motivated to take this risk because I knew I couldn't lose.

[WoodenJefferson]

Why would anybody sell a $20 gold piece for $600 to begin with?

 

[James Mayer-migration]

Why would anybody sell a $20 gold piece for $600 to begin with?

 

Ask your local pawn shop..

[TheMightyDuke]

That is one weird site! Not even a toll free number if you have problems. Though you knew you were covered.protected, and yes, IF they were legit (odds are about 1,000,000,000:1 against it), it's something I wouldn't even have considered. Did you check out the $8,000 oil painting she allegedly 'sold' to a bidder with a rating of 1? Strange things are afoot at 'epier'.

[physics-fan3.14]

Hmmm... this sounds like it falls under the "If it sounds too good to be true" category. I wouldn't have done it, but then again, I don't have $3k just lying around either.

[PerryHall]

If she sends you a package (very unlikely!), tell your mailman to leave you a notice so you can receive the package at the post office. When you pick it up, ask to open it in front of a postal supervisor. If it's empty or full of rocks, you at least have a witness of postal fraud who can verify to Pal Pal what happened.

[Coinsman63]

http://www.epier.com/BiddingForm_edit.asp?2017845

 

Someone posted the link on Coin Talk yesterday for a lot of five MS64 St. Gaudens (Raw) at a Buy it now of $3000 on this craigslist/ebay 2nd rate hybrid site, "ePier".

 

I spoke to Paypal first, learned about my Buyer Protection, and said, "Hey, what the heck, I have $3k handy and I'll pull the slots" and bought the coins.

 

An hour after, the seller, TheresaSales63, contacted me and says, "Thank you for buying the coins. i can expedite shipping for free! thank you"

 

I later e-mailed her and told her to call me. She later did, at 8 pm(After she said she got out of work).

 

She sent a money request from: Jessica Garver(Who she later said, was her "associate / sister-in-law")

 

I spoke to her for about 10 minutes while hearing a baby cry in the background. She said she'd ship them out Saturday(Today), but if not, first thing Monday. The baby continued to cry as I said, "Ok, sounds good".

 

I sent her, $3000 via Paypal under: "Goods".

 

She said she received it, and that was it.

 

Today, I play Detective. I know my Paypal Buyer protections off hand, but I want to go further. I want to know who this woman is, if she's legit, and why in the heck did she call me from a Tennessee area code(Had an ex girlfriend from there, so I knew). So, I finally called that number back: "Thank you for calling Motel 6 by the Airport, please hold for your operator."

 

I at that moment felt my gut wrench. A dirty, nervous, slightly disturbed feeling entered my stomach. I was scammed.

 

I call back Paypal, inform them of everything(as i've been doing throughout the entire process), and they say, "Don't worry, you're guaranteed your money back. Since you filed a claim so early, we will put the funds you sent her on hold."

 

I said, "Thanks." I told them I really wanted to give her a chance but there were just way too many red flags. She gets her money, and then disappears. No e-mails, nothing.

 

Heck, even my attorney friend noted the red flags. Even Coin Talk did. But, I took took the mitigated risk and believed the better side of human nature. I clipped the issue in the bud early however. Even if I waited a week and filed with Paypal, I still would have gotten my money back, but what's to say she wouldn't have just sent me a bag of rocks? Then apparently, Paypal won't cover you(if you accept and sign for the pacakge).

 

I had to get this case going early, just so I save Paypal money and I can expedite things for Long Beach.(Need some extra $, but I'll have to use checks for now" which is fine. Hey look maybe she is legit, maybe she really will send them Monday, and if that's the case, if I get 5 St Gaudens for an unbelievable low price, then yeah, I'll call the case right off, but for some reason, I don't think that's going to happen.

 

Thus, I took a mitigated risk.

 

-Jarett

 

Your first red flag was buying any coin from an online auction site like eBay or craigslist, especially a St. Gaudens.

 

Always buy from reputable dealers in your area at their place of business or coin shows so you can be assured you're getting what you pay for.

 

Gold coins, like the St. Gaudens gold coins, should always be bought from someone you deal with regularly and never online.

 

You never know what you're getting, and for $3000, you run the risk of being scammed and defrauded.

[Coinsman63]

Why would anybody sell a $20 gold piece for $600 to begin with?

 

Ask your local pawn shop..

 

You must be dealing with a pawn shop full of insufficiently_thoughtful_persons.

 

The pawn shops near me that have any gold coins for sale are asking 1000% mark-up from what they paid, which on average is anywhere from 60%-70% below FMV.

[James Mayer-migration]

You must be dealing with a pawn shop full of insufficiently_thoughtful_persons.

 

The pawn shops near me that have any gold coins for sale are asking 1000% mark-up from what they paid, which on average is anywhere from 60%-70% below FMV.

 

I did not mean to imply that they sell for that price, but that they buy for that price.

 

The pawn shops around me normally pay 65-85% of melt on gold and pay 8-10X face on silver. The reason for somewhat “high” pawn prices is because I live in a large city with a large amount of pawn shops most likely in competition

[jerseycat10]

Sounds like an unmitigated risk to me.

[PCcoins]

Sounds like a huge headache! Good luck to ya, even though it sounds like a scam 100%. Must have a lot of free time on your hands.

[Schatzy]

Your Crazy!!

[Old Pueblo]

Mitigation notwithstanding, this is not a "risk" I would assume. Unless, of course, it was for the purpose of calling attention to the fraud.

 

Hucksters beware!

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

OP

[Mark T]

What is there to learn??

This had scam written all over it from the get go.

Hey I have three grand someplace, wait here it is. Now what should I do with it to be on par with what you did ?

1) Go to the casino and play slot machines

2) Go to a bad part of town and announce I have 3 K in my pockets – come and get me

3) Play on line poker all week

4) Give it to you so you can invest it in the stock market for me

 

[BNBCoins.com-migration]

Heh, 4 posts just came into this thread literally outta nowhere(All within the hour, which is unusual because there had been minimal posting before that). , do you guys coordinate this stuff before hand?

 

[BNBCoins.com-migration]

Anyway guys, I think the post has been up long enough and I'll remove it. There's really no point beating a dead horse here.

[WoodenJefferson]

Heh, 4 posts just came into this thread literally outta nowhere(All within the hour, which is unusual because there had been minimal posting before that). , do you guys coordinate this stuff before hand?

 

half time, flush....go to US Coin Forum, post on BnB thread, get back to the game.

[jerseycat10]

User successfully ignored.

[RWB]

"Mitigation" plans are intended to prevent or lessen the severity of a known risk, should it occur. A "contingency" plan is implemented if the risk occurs.

 

Example:

Risk – the cat will run onto the road and get squished by a car.

Avoidance strategy – don’t own a cat.

Mitigation strategies – keep cat in the house; put cat on a leash when outside.

Contingency plan – if cat runs onto the road and gets squished, scrape it up and invite neighbors for “road kill stew” – get replacement cat (or get a smarter pet such as a lizard or a worm).

 

[bsshog40]

Heh, 4 posts just came into this thread literally outta nowhere(All within the hour, which is unusual because there had been minimal posting before that). , do you guys coordinate this stuff before hand?

When you're here long enough you will notice a trend with posting from some of the members. You post was for information reasons I suppose but also for others opinions. This forum is great for being honest. Some posts may look sarcastic but until you get to know the members here better, you will see that most all is in humor and fun. Enjoy yourself here and it will be very rewarding as time progresses. Don't take all the posts too seriously unless it is good advice, and look for the humor side to the other posts. Have a great rest of wknd my friend!

[James_OldeTowne]

That is one weird site! Not even a toll free number if you have problems. Though you knew you were covered.protected, and yes, IF they were legit (odds are about 1,000,000,000:1 against it), it's something I wouldn't even have considered. Did you check out the $8,000 oil painting she allegedly 'sold' to a bidder with a rating of 1? Strange things are afoot at 'epier'.

I have bought three items (I think) off of ePier, including my HP laptop, which I bought about four years ago for something like $600. I remember that I got the laptop for about 1/2 price of the next cheapest available option on the internet, and have been using it happily ever since. It was high-end at the time.

 

Heck, I don't even remember the other items I picked up off of ePier, but I was quite satisfied with my experience there. The problem is there's just too little volume to make them a viable alternative to eBay.

[cpm9ball]

"Mitigation" plans are intended to prevent or lessen the severity of a known risk, should it occur. A "contingency" plan is implemented if the risk occurs.

 

Example:

Risk – the cat will run onto the road and get squished by a car.

Avoidance strategy – don’t own a cat.

Mitigation strategies – keep cat in the house; put cat on a leash when outside.

Contingency plan – if cat runs onto the road and gets squished, scrape it up and invite neighbors for “road kill stew” – get replacement cat (or get a smarter pet such as a lizard or a worm).

 

[Just Bob]

"Mitigation" plans are intended to prevent or lessen the severity of a known risk, should it occur. A "contingency" plan is implemented if the risk occurs.

 

Example:

Risk – the cat will run onto the road and get squished by a car.

Avoidance strategy – don’t own a cat.

Mitigation strategies – keep cat in the house; put cat on a leash when outside.

Contingency plan – if cat runs onto the road and gets squished, scrape it up and invite neighbors for “road kill stew” – get replacement cat (or get a smarter pet such as a lizard or a worm).

 

 

 

 

 

After I finished reading this, I sent my cat outside to play.

[Conder101]

Why do I get the feeling RWB is not a cat person? (I am a cat person, but I can still appreciate the humor.)

[RWB]

Me? Not a "cat person?" I love cats -- grilled, stewed, slow roasted -- nothing so tasty as lemon-garlic kitten with rice and fresh veg....And, if you need warm gloves….OK… end of humor.

 

I'm very allergic to cats. One Thanksgiving we were invited to a friend's new home. They had gotten 2 cats. I ended up eating dinner on the deck, because I could not go into the house w/o my respiratory system clogging up. The feeling is a lot like one of those air barriers stores use.

 

A cat makes a fine pet for those who prefer them, although there is some evidence they are not good to have around small children due to dander stimulating asthma development.

 

[WoodenJefferson]

My Grandmother would always tell us not to have cats around when there is a baby still in the crib. She was adamant about a cat jumping up into the crib, laying down on the sleeping babies chest and then stealing the babies breath. With lack of oxygen, the baby would eventually suffocate and die.

 

I never looked at a cat the same way again.

 

Note: She would give us Peace dollars for our Birthdays, biggest thing I ever held in my little sweaty palms.

 

re: mitigated is not in my vocabulary, not something I use everyday...guess because I've never been mitigated against.

[BillJones]

Five $20 gold pieces for $3,000.

 

How many people run around on the Internet or in life selling their assets for many hundreds of dollars less than their actual value?

 

"If it's too good to be true, it probably is."

 

I think that you greed got the better of you.