1895/1894 plain morgan silver dollar questions?

[RobinWard29442]

my dad is in his 70's and has collected coins since back in the 50's. only for the value of the gold and silver in them. i recently bought him a book for his birthday. redbook 2011...so he could look up the hundreds of coins he has accumlated over the years.

 

he has two that we can not find much information on. 1895 and 1894 plain morgan silver dollars. i have been searching for weeks online, but every thing seems to indicate that these coins are old and rare enough that there value is not posted.

 

since he has owned them for more than 55 years kept each in wrapped in a velvet cloth, not allowed to touch them or clean or polish them, they seem to have very little wear.

 

he is interested in selling them both. but we are still in the investigation states of this discovery. i doubt that he will be convinced to allow me to mail it somewhere to get it graded or slabbed.

 

can someone tell a non- collector and a hobbyist to how to go about turning this thing into CASH? i just took lots of pictures of both coins front and back, but i can't fiqure out how to send them to you yet. robinward29442@aol.com

[cpm9ball]

Robin,

 

It would really help if we could see good photos of the obverse and reverse of both coins. I'll let someone else try to guide you through posting photos. I'm not very good at explaining it.

 

Please try to explain to your father that both of these coins have the potential to be worth a lot of money, and it may be in his best interest to submit them for grading and authentication. The 1894 could be worth 4-5 figures, and the 1895 could be worth as much as mid 5-figures depending on the condition.

 

Chris

[physics-fan3.14]

I just sent you an email - send me the pictures and I will post them for you.

[mtnstyne]

[RobinWard29442]

chris,

thank you for your reply.

i just read the instruction on how to post the pics but it won't except my pics because they are more than the limited kbs or something like that.

 

i can e mail them to you...if you would want to take a look???

 

my dad is this old mountain man, who does not trust the government or anyone else that he is not blood kin to... so i'm am trying to navigate my way through something he nor i know anything about. he is the kind who doesn't even have a checking account and is house is protected by smith and wesson...

 

you can imagine what this is going to be like?

 

he said if this these things are really worth the money you think they are i said at least 50k

he says somebody will jump on a plane and come here cash and carry.

 

now i am finding they are more rare and valuable than that... where do you begin?

Robin

[RobinWard29442]

chris,

 

is there some where/someone? that can evaluate these coins for there true authenticity and assign a grade/ value to them with out sending them through the mail?

 

my father let a jeweler look at the coin under a microscope to insure it was not one of those that are rumored to have been altered by means of removing the mint stamp to increase its value and falsify its value. however he was standing there as the process was done.

 

there must be some secure way to get it done...i mean it's not like he s the only person who has ever had very valuable rare coins before...

 

thanks, Robin

[physics-fan3.14]

Here are the pictures he sent me:

[RobinWard29442]

thank you so very much for the upload of the pictures!

Robin

[physics-fan3.14]

I don't see anything right off the bat that screams fake on the 1895 - which is a good thing, but I am not an expert in these by any means.

 

The 1894 appears to be a cast counterfeit. The surfaces seem grainy and don't feel right, and all of the details are mushy. From these pics, I don't believe it to be genuine.

 

The 1895 is a bit harder to determine. The coin has a bit of damage at the 7 oclock obverse, 11 oclock reverse, as well as a bad gash on her forehead. It looks to have been cleaned or polished as well, but there isn't anything jumping right out at me that screams fake. If it is indeed genuine, it could be a $30k coin. I highly recommend professional advice on this coin.

[RobinWard29442]

i e mailed you the rest of the photos for both coins,

perhaps that will show you something more than what you have already seen.

 

my fathers has owned both these coins since way before i was born 1961.

due to the age of them...could they really be fake?

 

How long have they been counterfeiting coins? like since the old west?

Robin

[physics-fan3.14]

They've been counterfeiting coins almost as long as they've been making coins. Thousands of years.

[cpm9ball]

Robin,

 

I have concerns about both coins.

 

Like Jason said, the 1894 looks fake or at the least harshly cleaned. If it is authentic, it might not be worth much more than $1K- $2K, tops.

 

The 1895 was only struck as a proof. This coin, despite looking as if it had seen circulation, just doesn't seem to have the sharp details you would associate with a proof Morgan. The rim damage on both the obverse and reverse might keep it from getting anything other than a details grade if it is authentic. The damage, by the way, would severely limit the value by as much as 50%, maybe more.

 

Suppose that the coin is authentic. It would have to be certified by a company like NGC before anyone would even consider buying it. No two ways about it! A coin dealer might give you an opinion, but that is all it would be.....an opinion.......and you might not know that his motive would be on the up and up. NGC does offer walk-through "same day" service for $125, but you are still going to have to send them the coin. Registered Mail is the only way to go. Every person in the USPS system who handles the package must log it in and out, and when it is not in a postal employee's hands, it is under lock and key.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

Here are the pictures he sent me:

 

After looking at the 1894 again, it can only be a fake. Look at the legend on the reverse. Note that "ONE DOLLAR" is further from the rim than "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". You won't see this abnormality on any Morgan. It doesn't happen. The legend should be a uniform distance from the rim all the way around.

 

Chris

[Coindude]

I have major concerns about both. The 94 does appear to be cast. The 95, the date seems to be really strange. The coin seems to be weekly struck as Chris said, which is not typical of a proof strike, but the date is very strong in comparison. The "9" in the date especially has something strange going on with it.

 

And, no offense, but there are stories all the time from people who say that a certain coin has been in a family for 100 years at least but the coin was just made last week in China. Seriously, no offense, but we have to go with what we see. Also, as stated, no one would pony up that kind of cash for either of these two without them first being authenticated.

 

But, there are those 95's that are reported to have been struck for circulation! Maybe this is the first to show it's face in public... But I truly seriously doubt that. Best of luck on selling these coins.

[RobinWard29442]

Chris,

I am so grateful for your time and help.

but and expert looked at the photos and said they are BOTH FAKES!!!!!

 

he pointed out on the reverse side where the two stars are separate the words united states of america from the words one dollar

 

the stars are the same size as the letters

but you can clearly see common on ALL Morgans those two stars are noticeably smaller than the letters.

 

he said this is almost always a dead give away

 

BUMMER! BIG BUMMER!!! thought we really found something!!!!

I hate to even call him and tell him what i found out!

 

i'll try to copy and paste the comparative photos for you, and email them.

 

thank you all for the help! shoot ...well we were millionaires for a couple weeks , even if it was in all in our imagination!

 

Now i know why i only collect daylillies! its not near as much a bummer to find out that you paid 50 dollars for common variety, at least they are still beautiful!

this is just terrible!

 

Thanks Robin

[physics-fan3.14]

Here is the link you sent me - its much easier to just post the link than copy the page: http://silver-coins.org/1894_morgan_o_dollar.html

 

Don't be too bummed about them being fake, if he bought them many years ago he probably didn't pay very much for them.

[RobinWard29442]

fortunately, he said of all the hundreds of coins that he has he has never purchased but 3 ... he always got the on some kind of trade for knives or guns or something else he collected... he's not even a real coin collector in their traditional since of the word...he only collects old coins and old jewelry for their silver and gold value. It was only because i bought him the book for his birthday that he even started looking at things like dates and graded qualities.

 

He took the news better than I did....shoot i was going to ask him a commission for helping !

 

he has a grade morgan to compare it to, so i guess he'll be there for days checking the differences in the others.

 

thanks again. And Good luck with you collecting ...don't take any wooden nickels might be and appropriate saying.

Robin

[BillJones]

Yes, sadly people have been counterfeiting U.S. since the days of the "old west." Most of the old counterfeits are not convincing for most collectors.

 

I have questions about the authenticity of the 1894 dollar, but the 1895 looks be damaged but genuine. There seems to be a lump where the mint mark would be, which means that this coin needs to be examined in person by an expert.

[cpm9ball]

I'm sorry that it had to be bad news. Maybe there will be some others in your dad's collection that will be true winners.

 

Chris

[James_OldeTowne]

My immediate reaction is that both of these coins are counterfeits.

[physics-fan3.14]

My immediate reaction is that both of these coins are counterfeits.

 

Generally, when faced with potentially multi-thousand dollar coins found in an old collection by people who know little about coins, I operate under the assumption that they are fake and then try to disprove this theory.

[michael]

please take a magnet and see if both stick to/ are attracted to the magnet then post the answer on here

 

 

and welcome to the boards

 

[BillJones]

It sounds like your father was more of an accumulator than a collector. Maybe my perception is wrong, but seems like he would have been the sort of guy who goes through the silver dollar junk boxes that some dealers maintain. Usually those boxes would do not have counterfeits of better dates like these pieces in them. I just find it odd that he would have a couple pieces like this.