A 1904-S $20, and a question.

[SkyMan]

Here's an old rattler MS63 of mine. One thing that is of interest is that there is what appears to be an X at the eagle's beak. I haven't a clue about it. Can anyone tell me what is happening here? The images are by Bob Campbell, and I think he did an excellent job on them.

 

 

[djdilliodon]

Could be a type of chop mark used to verify that it was real gold?

[James_OldeTowne]

I don't know what it is, but this is a damaged coin that you should send back under terms of the grading guarantee.

[michael]

I don't know what it is, but this is a damaged coin that you should send back under terms of the grading guarantee.

 

(thumbs u (thumbs u

 

pcgs missed this BIG TIME

 

yes has to go back under pcgs grade guarantee

 

pcgs will put this coin in a genuine holder and send you the coin back and a substancial check

 

 

unfortunately

 

the coin looks ms 64 to me and a nice original undipped coin

 

BUT BE THAT AS IT MAY you lose as if you send under grade guarantee they put the coin in a genuine holder and send you a MUCH smaller check than if the coin was in an ms 64 holder

 

so you lose with pcgs on both counts

 

also it doesnot surprise me that this s mint coin has a private gold hoarder/gold bug; HALLMARK; ie. put a small unique mark identifying the person that owned this gold coin in a totally unnoticeable place on this coin so if any of their gold coin stash was stolen it could be easily proven that it was their property

 

kind of like today engraving part of your social security number/other unique identification to you on your bike, big screen tv, snow blower etc.

 

i have seen this not only with some s mint gold coins of the federal mint in california but also with other gold rush private minted gold coins from california and colorado

 

being a hard asset state of the union even up until the early 20th century where paper assets were frowned upon many would hallmark their gold reserve stash in case they were stolen and then the owner could identify the coins as such as these gold bugs had all the coins at face value so no big deal

 

and being a common date coin makes this case even stronger

 

 

 

[michael]

reverse looks to be 65 to my minds eye from the excellent photos and yea i grade this coin ms 64 and could easily see it in a 64 holder

[SkyMan]

Thank you guys, particularly Michael, for the information.

[michael]

your welcome my friend

 

and i am sorry about this the coin is way above average eye appeal and a great skin to the coin and 64 obverse and 65 reverse

 

and of course see how clever this was done with great care and with a personal hallmark punch

 

 

i have found a few territorial/gold rush gold coins like this and if you showed this coin to me in person i would have missed this as usually on a coin like this i will not take the time to carefully examine it

 

a couple of years ago at a coin show i talked to xxxxxx at the xxxxxx table as he is always pleasant to talk to and i always learn something from him and see some cool territorials at his table! and after i said my goodbyes i saw a table opposite his table on the same isle

 

so i went to the table and it was a big dealer and there was this young man behind the table who clearly was not a numismatist after talking to him for a few minutes

 

i saw one of my fav territorials in an xyz graded slab a $10 colorado 1860 pikes peak mountain ten dollar gold coin priced i think in the 30k range

 

i asked to see the coin and immediately i see an extremely clever well hidden initals carefully added to the coin and it looked part of the coin this is why xyz slabbing service and xxxxx missed it

 

i asked him to tell me about this coin and i confirmed he did not know anything about territorial coins it so happens i know the initals of a collector from the early 20th century who did this to all his gold coins....... common knowledge among territorial gold dealers

 

i asked to see the owner of this coin and xxxxxx came over to the table and i told him of the initals and he looked and in 2 seconds he saw this where i pointed it out and of course everyone had missed this

 

he said of course (i knew this already) about the collector doing this and his initals and from the early 20th century and he took the coin out of the case and walked back to his table again extrrmely well hidden in the details of the coin and carefully engraved

 

so this does happen every so often with gold and of course you will NEVER SEE THIS ON THE BOARDS OR IN PRINT not good or bad just the way it is

 

but it does happen

 

and if i was grading at a service i would have missed your 1904-s as most likely i would never have looked really carefully as such

 

but on gold territorials .. this is the first thing i look for a hallmark and yes i have found more than one slabbeed in xyz and abcd grading service holders but since xxxxx was my friend i told him about it immediately

 

the most common occurance for damage in a third party grading service holder for territorial graded that is graded are slugs that have had the rim bumps taken out ie. smoothed/repaired

 

but gold territorials are extremely played with coins and this is not good or bad just the way it is and how much damage and non original surfaces you sre willing to accept

[michael]

i vote this.................. thread of the month (thumbs u

 

 

[MBA101]

I have seen bigger hits on gold $20 coins than that X...

[michael]

I have seen bigger hits on gold $20 coins than that X...

 

THE X WAS CAREFULLY AND PURPOSELY DONE WITH A STEEL PUNCH

 

the hits were not

[PerryHall]

Agree with Michael---that X looks like it may have been intentional to mark this coin for some purpose.