Is this Vam CC Morgan rare in a GSA Holder?

[C.I.]

It has been awhile since my last post. I'm' the one who spend those hours removing that heavy laquer poured on the GSA holder. It was soo thick, you really could not see much but it was a 78. Have now completed the task and find this 78CC is a Vam 17 with a R-5 rariety. I am not a big vammer but it has all the attributes. The CC touching the wreath, the line or spike in the eye, the hanger in the corner of the nose and a long nock (middle arrow feather longer) B1 reverse.

 

Have read the Vam 6 has never been found in a GSA and its only a R-4. SInce NGC does not provide the service for anything but the top 100, my question is does anyone know if a Vam 17 is special being in a GSA holder?? I call this my Wonder Coin and do not plan on selling but will be sending it in for grading.. Hoping to find a Vammer who might shed some light on the subject.

 

Chet

[Bugmann1974]

Wow, you did a great job on that holder!

[cpm9ball]

Chet, I think you should double-check your attribution. The very wide spacing on the mintmark with both C's touching the ribbon looks very much like the VAM-3 that had been eliminated because it was believed not to exist. You may have a nice Discovery coin.

 

Also, if you decide to have it graded, you might want to consider having the TPG remove it from the GSA slab and have the GSA provenance added to the insert. The only reason I suggest this is that NGC will not warranty the coin or its condition in the GSA slab. Since there was a lacquer on the case and you used chemicals to remove it, the coin may be at risk to lingering vapors that could have made their way into the case.

 

Great find!

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

Chet, I think you should double-check your attribution. The very wide spacing on the mintmark with both C's touching the ribbon looks very much like the VAM-3 that had been eliminated because it was believed not to exist. You may have a nice Discovery coin.

 

Also, if you decide to have it graded, you might want to consider having the TPG remove it from the GSA slab and have the GSA provenance added to the insert. The only reason I suggest this is that NGC will not warranty the coin or its condition in the GSA slab. Since there was a lacquer on the case and you used chemicals to remove it, the coin may be at risk to lingering vapors that could have made their way into the case.

 

Great find!

 

Chris

 

Oops! Forgot one very important thing............

 

I'd recommend that you contact Leroy Van Allen and get instructions for submitting it to him for attribution. You should contact him by e-mail before sending it to him............. vams@bright.net

 

You can do this after you've submitted it for grading because I think you should have it removed from the GSA case as soon as possible. IMPORTANT: Do not remove it from the case yourself before submitting it to the TPG. It's the only way you can prove that it is a GSA Morgan. It's true that there are some collectors

who will pay a premium because it is in the GSA case, but that would be more than offset by the added value of a new discovery coin.

 

Send me a PM if you need help when sending it to Leroy, and I can tell you what you need to tell him about the coin to prove your case.

 

Chris

[rrantique]

Wow, you did a great job on that holder!

 

 

I agree fantastic job. (thumbs u

[C.I.]

Chris

Thanks for your insight. I pulled out the loop to check the CC positions. Although the photo looks like both are touching the wreath, only the right one is. Without question, the left has a small space between. I pulled up the Vam 17 photo in Vamworld and the position looks very similar (small space and wide CC's which are very clean and distinct (no crud in the center).

 

Regarding the case, yes I originally used chemical and did have severe reactions as the top continued to turn white (reaction under the surface). This was about a year ago. At that point, the forum here suggested to do just what you said. Crack it out!!! Save the coin.At that point, I decided to give it one more try. Basically, sand the laquer off, one layer at a time. Keep in mind, the laquer was all the way to the rim of the holder. It was thick. After several days of sanding, the reaction stopped. I still had 80% of the laquer to remove after that which has been done over the past 9 months.

I just sanded to a point where I was close to the actual plastic case. Then to very fine sanding and just recently finished by applying slab renew which really helped in removing the fine sanding lines. It made all the difference. Until complete, I could not see well enough to know it was a Vam. With that, I think the coin is safe as I have not seen reactions since early in working on the project. Think you can tell in like original GSA packaging but have come to realize from collectors ( in this forum), the coin must come first.

Because one of the CC's is not touching, is this probably a 17? And is that rare in a GSA? Chris, thanks for your wisdom and look forward to any future coments.

 

Chet

[cpm9ball]

Chet,

 

I would still like to see close-ups of the m/m in relation to the bow (both vertically and horizontally) and a better illuminated photo of the date placement in relation to the neck "vee". Do you have a camera/microscope like a Dino Lite?

 

I still think you should have it removed from the slab. You can't see vapors, and it could take quite a while before having an adverse effect on the coin. It's better to be safe than sorry.

 

Chris

[C.I.]

Chris

 

Let me see what I can do in getting you some close ups. Back at work and will be in Lubbock TX for several days. I did notice after I sent my last response is the CC's seen in the VAM 17 photo is tilted up on the right where mine are straight across (little to no tilt). But that left C does not touch the wreath. If you don't hear from me soon, I will be back home on Saturday. What are the odds of having a new find? Like I better not quit my day job. I try not to see more into a coin than what it is and really do not know the passion Vammers have for rare varieties. But I think I just might be getting the Vam bug!!! Thanks again

 

Chet

[cpm9ball]

Try not to go overboard with the VAM thing. You'd need a money pit for the 4,000 or so varieties. Enjoy the coin for what it is, and buy only those that please you.

 

I'm looking forward to the photos.

 

Chris

[CHABSENTIA]

Try not to go overboard with the VAM thing. You'd need a money pit for the 4,000 or so varieties. Enjoy the coin for what it is, and buy only those that please you.

 

I'm looking forward to the photos.

 

Chris

 

I agree with the earlier post. It should be removed from the holder and it should be removed by NGC so as to keep the GSA attribution.

 

I have mentioned it earlier and I will mention it again. I have an 1880 CC MS64 in a GSA holder with the NGC security tape etc. It is also a Vam but does not have the Vam attribution . I went to the Numismedia values here and they show the same coin with the Vam designaton in the same grade but a a lesser value.

 

Why would I want to get the Vam attributed when it means that Numismedia will give it a lesser value? But if you did noit get the Vam attributed then there might be some that dont believe it is a Vam. .There are many sellers who sell raw coins on EBay and advertise it a s a vam which os not true. But then there are collectors who will know and will pay a premium So it looks like the advice would be to get it out of the holder by sending it to NGC and make sure they give it the GSA designation and then send it or a photo to Leroy Allen so that he will have the documentation to back up the vam.

[cpm9ball]

Try not to go overboard with the VAM thing. You'd need a money pit for the 4,000 or so varieties. Enjoy the coin for what it is, and buy only those that please you.

 

I'm looking forward to the photos.

 

Chris

 

I agree with the earlier post. It should be removed from the holder and it should be removed by NGC so as to keep the GSA attribution.

 

I have mentioned it earlier and I will mention it again. I have an 1880 CC MS64 in a GSA holder with the NGC security tape etc. It is also a Vam but does not have the Vam attribution . I went to the Numismedia values here and they show the same coin with the Vam designaton in the same grade but a a lesser value.

 

Why would I want to get the Vam attributed when it means that Numismedia will give it a lesser value? But if you did noit get the Vam attributed then there might be some that dont believe it is a Vam. .There are many sellers who sell raw coins on EBay and advertise it a s a vam which os not true. But then there are collectors who will know and will pay a premium So it looks like the advice would be to get it out of the holder by sending it to NGC and make sure they give it the GSA designation and then send it or a photo to Leroy Allen so that he will have the documentation to back up the vam.

 

You can't always rely on Numismedia for pricing guides. Which VAM is yours? I don't remember.

 

I have about a dozen GSA Morgans in the OGP cases, and I will eventually have all of them removed and slabbed in NGC holders with the GSA provenance since there is no warranty provided while they are still in the OGP cases.

 

Chris

[C.I.]

Chabsentia

Thanks for your views. The way I read NGC, they only verify the top 100 vams whether they are in or out of their case. Why crack her out? Especially since I only collect GSA's in their holder. It sounds like a few of you have communicated with Mr Allen. Does he welcome request and photo's??

 

You mentioned your issue with your Vam 80. One of my 80's and has the same issue as well. Think she just might grade a 65. It's a Vam 9. No question. It has the dash below the 8, Very short ear top left 8, Bottom loop of 8 shows polish line, 0 shows no part of 9, has a die chip on the letter L, die chip above star (back left), die chip above T. Everything vamworld says it should have. So what is one to do? Have it graded by NGC without a designation?? By Vamworld, it's a R-5 in rariety. Has anyone discussed the possibilities of NGC expanding their Vam designations?? Have a great day!

 

Chet