ANACS crackouts/crossovers to NGC - guess the grades

[Hard Times]

So I used my CS 5 coin certificate for 2009 to see how ANACS graded specimens would grade at NGC. I delivered these into the hands of NGC at FUN and they are now back. I believe it would be interesting to see how y'all grade these knowing the ANACS grade, then followed by the NGC new grade. I will post 1 ANACS each morning and its new NGC every evening. In some cases, I am happy with NGC results , in other cases, I truly begin to wonder what the heck they are doing. So here we go..........

 

First up, a coin I bought on ebay a few years back, got it graded at ANACS right away. I cracked it out for submission. Deep-rich toning on this nice bust half dime.

 

What did NGC grade it?

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I would probably call that coin a 53, or maybe even 55 if the luster is strong.

[HiHoAudio]

AU53 and a real beauty.

[Schatzy]

Well I guess I am going to go with AU55.

[Hard Times]

Good evaluations! So I come back with a question and a comment. Yes the luster is strong, flashy cartwheel on both sides under the light. But you guys are suggesting one to two grade increases from ANACS to NGC? Aren't we all supposed to think that NGC is a stricter grader than ANACS? Anyone for grade decreases? The hair on Miss Liberty is a little flat suggesting of wear or can that be interpreted as weak strike? I will post the NGC result later today.

[Mozin]

One never knows what a grading service will say about toning, but since you are happy with your NGC grades, I will guess you kept the AU50 grade.

 

Had I submitted this one for crossover, it would have not crossed, because of questionable toning.

[Hard Times]

One never knows what a grading service will say about toning, but since you are happy with your NGC grades, I will guess you kept the AU50 grade.

 

Had I submitted this one for crossover, it would have not crossed, because of questionable toning.

 

HI Mozin,

I am happy with some of the NGC grades, surprised by the others. This is the first of 6 I will show. Not sure why you say this is questionable toning. This is about as realistic as it gets, to me I interpret the toning to have taken likely decades to form in whatever storage environment it was in. It is visually, thick and richly toned. How do you arrive at questionable toning, it would be helpful for you to describe your observations. Thanks, Al

[Mark T]

I like the coin but knowing how tough NGC and PCGS are with color I will say this one could have received a details grade. I think the coins color looks natural. I am not saying I think it is AT, basically I am playing devils advocate.

 

As for the details of this coin . Based on your picture I can not see this lower then Au 50 or better then Au 55 .

 

I do like the coin .

[123cents]

The toning looks natural and great. I would think NGC probably crossed it at the same grade. AU-50.

[$ilverHawk]

A nice crusty AU53.

 

Carl

[michael]

i like the coin and i think ngc put it in an

 

ngc au 50 holder

 

and also a PQ coin

[ldhair]

I'll guess AU-58

[Hard Times]

Well everyone, excellent grading. Here is the result, simply I was amazed, I was hoping for at least XF45, more tomorrow, we have 5 more to go...... Thanks for your commentary, Al

 

[Schatzy]

Well everyone, excellent grading. Here is the result, simply I was amazed, I was hoping for at least XF45, more tomorrow, we have 5 more to go...... Thanks for your commentary, Al

 

Well I got one right!!

[TJ'S Coins]

Congratulations on your upgrade from ANACS. How is the luster in hand?

[HiHoAudio]

I believe that NGC was spot on with this coin.

 

Anxious to see and grade the next five.

[rrantique]

Well everyone, excellent grading. Here is the result, simply I was amazed, I was hoping for at least XF45, more tomorrow, we have 5 more to go...... Thanks for your commentary, Al

 

Well I got one right!!

 

[Hard Times]

TJ, the luster in hand is strong flashy cartwheel under the light.

 

Next one up: nice barber half, XF 45 in a recent ANACS holder. This one has very nice luster that flashes along the rims on each side where the surfaces were protected from wear, otherwise what you see is what you get. I will post the NGC grade this evening.

 

What is the NGC grade?

 

 

 

[Schatzy]

This one looks like it was cleaned and retoned. I'll say that NGC graded it Extra Fine details.

[Mark T]

Based on details only:

I think this one would cross at XF 45 . I see no reason why it would grade lower.

It could have a shot at Au 50 but I think XF 45 is the correct grade.

 

Once again - devils advocate - was it cleaned and toned over ??

If so then it wound up in a details holder.

[TJ'S Coins]

I could see it in a AU50 holder or a straight across EF45. Thanks for answering my question on luster with the first example.

[cointagious]

Aren't we all supposed to think that NGC is a stricter grader than ANACS? size]

 

The old ANACS were strong graders on most series up to MS64.

They were brutal on much copper and au and better barber stuff.

[Hard Times]

Jaime and Mark,

You bring up good points, so my question back is, how do you recognize if a coin was cleaned and toned over? The pics are good and what you see is what you get, but I have noted the luster in the protected areas around the edges. For this coin, if it were cleaned and then retoned, what specific features do you see that would lead you to possibly conclude this?

More evaluations welcome, I will post it in its new holder this evening.....

 

Thanks, Al

[Schatzy]

It is just gut feeling, looks to clean for XF45 coin.

What is going on under the eagles right wing.

[Mark T]

The color is what makes me a bit uncertain about this coin . I am pretty sure this coin was dipped and then it toned over. The question is whether the toning was natural or enhanced artificially in some way. With the half dime I was playing devils advocate as I liked the coin . Old Anacs graded correctly on the conservative side, new Anacs is very liberal and much more forgiving then PCGS and NGC when it comes to questionable tone and grading.

This Barber just looks like it may have been messed with .

 

[Hard Times]

Mark, good commentary and thanks. If I understand you correctly then, what I interpreted above in the specimen description that accommodated the image, as original luster in the protected areas around the edges, is actually the result of dipping a worn coin followed by retoning? If so, then that is clearly being messed with. The question then becomes, when is that kind of messing acceptable by the top TPG's and when is it not? I have seen many similar specimens with these types of surface conditions in top TPG holders.......

[L1ncolnF4n]

XF details, cleaned. It feels to me that 45 is even high for a number and I'd feel much more comfortable in the 40 range. I wouldn't CAC that at 45 IMO.

[Mark T]

Mark, good commentary and thanks. If I understand you correctly then, what I interpreted above in the specimen description that accommodated the image, as original luster in the protected areas around the edges, is actually the result of dipping a worn coin followed by retoning? If so, then that is clearly being messed with. The question then becomes, when is that kind of messing acceptable by the top TPG's and when is it not? I have seen many similar specimens with these types of surface conditions in top TPG holders.......

 

It is often very difficult based on a picture alone to determine if a coin has an altered surface.

Based on what I have seen with other coins yours could fall into the category of altered surface. I am not saying that the luster in the protective areas is the result of a dip , although it easily could be . The general look of your coin concerns me just enough to think it may have been altered in some way.

I can not give you an answer as to the cut off point for a TPG to consider a dipped coin a problem , I don’t think anyone here can give you a definitive answer on that one as it seems to fluctuate often

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I don't like that Barber, and would not personally buy it for my collection. Besides the obvious dip, the area of gouges on her neck concerns me. It is hard to say if these things are bad enough to prevent crossing, or if NGC will just silently net grade. If it holdered, I would say EF-40 (it has higher details, but the problems bring it down).

 

 

[Hard Times]

There are some excellent graders here, and this is a very good discussion and I am learning alot. Much thanks, here is the result and congrats to those of you who nailed it! Good thing this is a low cost coin, as the CRO boys say, one has to pay their 'tuition'.....

 

I will post the next one tomorrow am.