The Inconveneiences of Collecting

[L1ncolnF4n]

Why is it that when you don't have the money available, all the pieces you need come to the market? Particularly the nice choice gem ones?

 

Why is it that when you have something for sale, everyone else is selling the same thing too, and though yours is better you can't find a buyer?

 

Why is it that so many people on eBay are so ignorant (and more bluntly stupid)?

 

 

 

Just some thoughts...

[cpm9ball]

Why is it that when you don't have the money available, all the pieces you need come to the market? Particularly the nice choice gem ones?

 

Why is it that when you have something for sale, everyone else is selling the same thing too, and though yours is better you can't find a buyer?

 

Why is it that so many people on eBay are so ignorant (and more bluntly stupid)?

 

 

 

Just some thoughts...

 

[font:Comic Sans MS] Because! [/font]

 

Chris

[BillJones]

Why is it that when you don't have the money available, all the pieces you need come to the market? Particularly the nice choice gem ones?

 

That's the story of my life when comes to 1796 half dimes. As a collector I have been very lucky many times at finding coins that have pleased me for years. The major exception has been 1796 half dimes - ALL OF THEM, the normal date, over date and the "LIKERTY' die state.

 

My normal date piece is kind of scrubbed up despite the fact that I spent big bucks for it. My overdate is the poorest example NGC has ever graded. (I had to pass on an EF because I didn't have money when it was available) And my "LIKERTY" has spots like a leopard. At least in that case I decided to buy an ugly one for short dollars (at least for these expensive things) because I don't have a lot of respect for the die state designation. I would not have bothered with it had it not been a Red Book variety.

 

The one time I did have a chance to buy a decent one was more than 30 years ago. It was nice original EF, but I had just bought the "wrong" one again.

[astrostu]

I would suggest that much of it is simply confirmation bias.

[WinstonWare]

The one time I did have a chance to buy a decent one was more than 30 years ago. It was nice original EF, but I had just bought the "wrong" one again.

 

Bill, just out of curiosity, why didn’t you buy the nice original EF and move the “wrong” one?

[BillJones]

The one time I did have a chance to buy a decent one was more than 30 years ago. It was nice original EF, but I had just bought the "wrong" one again.

 

Bill, just out of curiosity, why didn’t you buy the nice original EF and move the “wrong” one?

 

A combination of things. I didn't have the cash flow, and I didn't have the "wrong" one with me to make a possible trade. Back then I could have owned the "right" one for a couple thousand dollars. Today it's close to $10 grand.

[WinstonWare]

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

[James_OldeTowne]

Why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it, but not acceptable to alter it by toning it ?

 

[gbsten]

Why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it, but not acceptable to alter it by toning it ?

 

 

OK, I give up, why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it?

[Bugmann1974]

Thats a good question but a lot of people feel that way

[Houston Investor]

The thing about the coin business is its much better to be cash rich and inventory poor than the other way around. If you look at the bluesheet CMI since 1990, it is evident coins are basically a lousy investment.

 

I have more than enough numismatic coins and currency to fill my cases at shows. My business focus has become having a larger cash position (to take advantage of deals) and funnelling any new investment money into gold and silver bullion coins or equivalent. I also am a hoarder of Texas Commems I can get on the cheap (below bid - bagged a couple during the superbowl from TTR) and also like to pick up nice 19th century type if the price is right enough for it to be a nice coin for inventory.

 

I have plenty of Gem Walkers, Dollars, and like Franklin Halves (hoarding 1949-S Gems and 1950 Proofs in PF65 and higher). I am also nuts about National Banknotes, especially graded Uncs.

 

If your in the business, the more material you have in your cases at shows that the competetion does not have the better. A lot of those guys have shops where its walking at 50-60% of bid so they can sell at bid and sitll make money. Be aware its common stuff so don't be deceived their selling it at wholesale is some kinda norm. Don't let them come over to your table and pick off your nice stuff pressuring you to sell to them at bid. Save your nice stuff for retail customers that will pay the money. Have a good bullion position, in the event you need to blow something out to raise cash.

[James_OldeTowne]

Why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it, but not acceptable to alter it by toning it ?

 

 

OK, I give up, why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it?

I wish I knew! It's what I've been told, though.

[BillJones]

Why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it, but not acceptable to alter it by toning it ?

 

 

OK, I give up, why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it?

I wish I knew! It's what I've been told, though.

 

I'll take a shot at this. There are many collectors who like white silver coins. When I was dealer I had a number of customers who demanded only white silver. I could try to explain to them until I was blue in the face that most, older silver coins, other than Morgan and Peace silver dollars, had been dipped if they were white. It did not matter what I said; I could not change them.

 

There are also arguments for dipping some coins. In many instances the natural toning is unattractive. It's hard to sell ugly coins. There are also instances where the toning that is forming on a piece can be damaging the surface. Removal of such toning is really conservation. If the dipping solution is properly neutralized, a dipped white silver coin can be stable. I’ve owned this 1875-S Twenty Cent piece since 1995. It was dipped and has been in this PCGS since I bought it. How do I know it has been dipped? There is not way that this coin could look like this after spending 135 years out in the atmosphere.

 

 

As for the other question, the biggest trouble with artificial toning is that many advanced collectors and knowledgeable dealers can spot it and find it unattractive. Second, the methods that many coin doctors use to tone coins artificially often cause permanent damage to the surfaces of the pieces. Even you remove the stuff with a dip the surfaces are usually dull, lifeless and unappealing. The reason is the stuff they use to tone a quickly is harsh and corrosive to the surface and often causes damage.

 

As for those rare AT jobs that work, who’s to know? If the AT looks like natural toning then everyone will be happy with it.

 

[rrantique]

Why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it, but not acceptable to alter it by toning it ?

 

 

OK, I give up, why is it acceptable to alter a coin by dipping it?

 

 

Maybe because dipping removes the altered toning

[World Colonial]

Why is it that when you don't have the money available, all the pieces you need come to the market? Particularly the nice choice gem ones?

 

Why is it that when you have something for sale, everyone else is selling the same thing too, and though yours is better you can't find a buyer?

 

Why is it that so many people on eBay are so ignorant (and more bluntly stupid)?

 

 

 

Just some thoughts...

 

It depends what someone collects. I'm not really buying anything now but the number of times when there are many coins available for sale at once that I want to buy is usually zero. Essentially never outside of large or specialized auctions. And few of them are ever gems either.

 

The same goes for selling coins. If what someone is trying to sell is widely available or not that hard to find, then there is nothing unusual about that either.

[World Colonial]

High grade bullion coins outsell my high grade circulation items 10:1. Especially silver. Silver is white hot right now.

 

I'm not sure the next generation of coin collectors will be able to afford the high ticket circulation coins of generations past.

 

What is your definition of this type of coin? If the coin is actually scarce, maybe.

 

But there are many more expensive coins, both circulated and mint state, that are relatively overpriced or absurdly overpriced even though they are common. I expect most of them to lose value in purchasing power terms and many in nominal terms, even over longer periods of time. Its the only way many of them will become affordable to future buyers.

[World Colonial]

It depends upon what the collector has bought. I presume that you are commenting on US coins generally and if so, I would say it probably also applies to most world coins also.

 

In my series of which there are six, South Africa Union and ZAR have gone up a lot since 1990. Union have gone up a lot in the last five years and the King George VI series a lot in the last one year. I have bought many of all these coins raw, had them graded and then sold them for multiples of my cost. I bought one of these coins as part of a group lot at public auction in 2008 that cost me $70 and I am selling it now for $2500,

 

The other series (Spanish colonial and Spain colonial period) I actually do not know because I have not been an active buyer recently, though I do track them somewhat, and have hardly ever sold any of them. But I would say that the appreciation in these has been not that large. However, most are worth more than my cost and I would not lose money if I sold them.