cpm9ball bought a pretty new frankie and you can learn from his lesson

[kryptonitecomics]

Chris (cpm9ball) is my buddy and when he asked me to image a pretty new proof franklin half he picked up at a show I was happy to do it....after all we all know he has two left thumbs when it comes to coin imaging

 

He also asked for an opinion as to the originality of the toning since he was thinking of submitting the coin to NGC. First off let me tell you that I love the coin, very colorful with a ton of eye appeal....but....

 

When the coin arrived I was 95% certain it was AT after only a few seconds of looking at it. I know that Chris was hoping for the best but he did have an idea that the color may not have been legit so I don't think he was surprised when I provided my opinion but maybe just a bit disappointed. This is the type of coin that I would purchase for say $30 bucks even knowing that it's artificially toned becuase I find it very attractive. The danger of course is that when purchasing coins like this there is really no way to know if the surfaces are stable or if the coin doctor neutralized the chemicals that were originally applied.

 

So for the purposes of collector education, Chis has asked me to share the images and my thoughts on how the coin was probably created. My assumptions might not be correct about the processes used on this coin so if anyone has anything to add or would like to share images of other AT coins along with what they think have been done to them then I think this could really be a great learning experience for those collectors who don't generally purchase toned material, but may want to add a few pieces to their collection in the future (thumbs u

 

 

Here is the coin and my thoughts:

 

 

Very pretty rainbow toning on the Obverse but heavy on the pinks and purples which are usually the easiest artificial colors to produce. Right in the center of the portrait it is difficult to see that there is some olive drab green mixed in....this green matches the reverse. Based on my first look at the Obverse I was probably about 80+% sure the coin was AT but beautiful

 

 

 

 

The reverse is less attractive and to me certainly tells a lot of the story as far as the origins of the toning. First there is the large green spot in the center which looks like a spot where heat was applied to the surface of the coin during the toning process, almost like a bunson burner was used quickly after a quick chemical dip. It could just as easily be a spot where the chemical was first applied and left on longer then the surrounding area. The other very telling observation I made in hand which may be a bit harder to make out in the photos is that it appears that their are some moisture spots at several points around the left side of the periphery. Think about water spots on a glass and what remains when a liquid dries and you get the idea. If a coin had some liquid placed on the surface and then it was dabbed dry then the protected areas around the letter would be the ideal spot for a small amount of moisture to stay trapped and potentially dry

 

 

So these are my thoughts on the coin and I would love for others to weigh in and potentially share some other examples. (thumbs u

[Coindude]

I've seen others similar to this that I cut from original mint cello. So, saying that it's AT might be a stretch here.

 

Sometimes these flatpacks aren't stored in optimal conditions and when stored in a non controlled environment the plastic can break down a bit and the coins come into contact with each other. The ones that have done that and probably left in non AC conditions have produced coins that are very colorful and sometimes plain ugly. I think this example is of the former and I think it's quite possible that it's NT. I don't believe the people that accidentally created these in the 60's and 70's thought they someday might turn a few bucks.

[MarkFeld]

The colors and their progression look unnatural to me, so I am force to go with AT also.

[BillJones]

I've never been a fan of this type of purple toning, and the fact that the coin is darker in the center than on the edges is a concern. My vote would be AT. Sorry.

[cpm9ball]

To say that I was disappointed that Shane believes it to be AT is true, and as he said, I was really hoping for a nod of approval. When Shane PM'ed me these photos last night along with the bad news, I couldn't stop thinking about it. By the way, I asked Shane to post the photos for just the purpose he stated....a learning experience.

 

It's interesting that the comment has been made that coins such as this have toned similarly in the Mint packaging because that is exactly what the dealer told me at the FMCC Show. As a side note, our local show is only held during the peak-season months when the snowbirds are here. The dealer, Tom Rosh from Milan, PA is one of those snowbirds. Now, I'm not telling you his name and where he lives to alert you to anything of a nefarious nature. I like him! He's a nice old gent probably in his late 60's or early 70's. When this coin caught my attention at his table, he was very forthright about it with no prompting from me. He said that it was toned like that in the Mint package, and he removed it and submitted it to NGC a few years ago only to have it come back in a bodybag as AT. I wonder what would have happened if he had submitted the entire proof set still in the package? I bought it anyway at what I considered a reasonable price.

 

I love the coin, and Shane did an excellent job capturing the wonderful colors on it. You know, I think I am still going to submit it to NGC. It won't matter to me if it comes back as authentic or not. At least it will be in a slab, and I want to protect it that way. Since I am assuming that it is AT, it will also be interesting to see if the chemical process remains stable in the slab or if it changes with time.

 

Thanks, buddy!

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

I think I am still going to submit it to NGC. It won't matter to me if it comes back as authentic or not. At least it will be in a slab, and I want to protect it that way. Since I am assuming that it is AT, it will also be interesting to see if the chemical process remains stable in the slab or if it changes with time.

 

Chris, if it really doesn't matter what NGC says about it, why submit it? You can certainly protect it by less costly means. And you can also still track any changes to its appearance without having it slabbed. I think, whether YOU are conscious of it or not, that you really DO care what NGC has to say about it..

[kryptonitecomics]

I have purchased dozens of Proof set with toned franklins and Quarters and even the Nickels.....and in all those years I have never seen a coin with rainbow colors anywhere close to this outside of the nickels. In almost all cases the coins have been orange or burgundy in color and not multiple colors and certainly not pinks and purples. Does this mean it couldn't happen....no this is just one man's experience but I think it far more likely that anyone finding coins with colors like this is being duped becuase it would be very easy to put a small pin in the packaging near a seem and gas the coin while it's still in the original package.

[kryptonitecomics]

lol ....i posted pin p-r-i-c-k above and it censored me

[cpm9ball]

I think I am still going to submit it to NGC. It won't matter to me if it comes back as authentic or not. At least it will be in a slab, and I want to protect it that way. Since I am assuming that it is AT, it will also be interesting to see if the chemical process remains stable in the slab or if it changes with time.

 

Chris, if it really doesn't matter what NGC says about it, why submit it? You can certainly protect it by less costly means. And you can also still track any changes to its appearance without having it slabbed. I think, whether YOU are conscious of it or not, that you really DO care what NGC has to say about it..

 

Mark,

 

I appreciate your comments, and I realize that there are less expensive ways to protect it. Naturally , I would like nothing more than to have it come back NT, but I don't expect it. Besides, the way I smoke cigarettes, I don't expect to live for too long a time anyway, and I'd rather give the money to NGC instead of some self-slabbing production company.

 

Chris

[cpm9ball]

lol ....i posted pin p-r-i-c-k above and it censored me

 

That is probably because pinprick is one word.

 

Chris

[Mark T]

Chris how much did you pay for that coin ??

[cpm9ball]

Chris how much did you pay for that coin ??

 

$50, but I made a 100% profit selling two modern gold commems to my attorney who is the Secretary of the FMCC.

 

Chris

[Mark T]

$ 50 is not a lot , heck for price it is a good conversation piece.

[kryptonitecomics]

I think I paid $20 for this and I love the color but again.....it's a no brainer AT

 

 

I thought so much of it I never even imaged it...these were the sellers pics

 

 

[Coindude]

That's a gorgeous piece there Shane. I still contend that it is quite possible for the half to tone that way, especially if the penny came in contact with the half and I have seen that happen.

[Schatzy]

I wonder what would have happened if he had submitted the entire proof set still in the package? I bought it anyway at what I considered a reasonable price.

 

The same thing would still happen since the graders don't see the coins in the mint package.

 

PS I still like the coin!!

[SkyMan]

I would agree that Shane's and Chris' coins are AT.

[kryptonitecomics]

I would agree that Shane's and Chris' coins are AT.

 

 

Mine is not....how dare you

 

 

Oh darn I forgot I already stated it for the record....I withdrawl my lawsuit your honor

[cpm9ball]

I would agree that Shane's and Chris' coins are AT.

 

 

Mine is not....how dare you

 

 

Oh darn I forgot I already stated it for the record....I withdrawl my lawsuit your honor

 

The judge retorts, "You wasted all of my time for nothing you pinprick!"

 

Chris

[kryptonitecomics]

At least there would be happy Lawyers as they still get paid

[cpm9ball]

At least there would be happy Lawyers as they still get paid

 

Why do you think I didn't mind selling those two modern gold commems to my attorney for 100% profit?

 

Shane, please accept my apology if you were offended when I called you a pinxxxxx head.

 

Chris

[kryptonitecomics]

At least there would be happy Lawyers as they still get paid

 

Why do you think I didn't mind selling those two modern gold commems to my attorney for 100% profit?

 

Shane, please accept my apology if you were offended when I called you a pinxxxxx head.

 

Chris

 

 

I was more offended when you begged me to let you win at pool....groveling is so beneath you

 

 

[cpm9ball]

At least there would be happy Lawyers as they still get paid

 

Why do you think I didn't mind selling those two modern gold commems to my attorney for 100% profit?

 

Shane, please accept my apology if you were offended when I called you a pinxxxxx head.

 

Chris

 

 

I was more offended when you begged me to let you win at pool....groveling is so beneath you

 

 

 

Well, the next time you can give me a spot and we'll play for $100 a game.............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and I'll let you buy the drinks.

[SkyMan]

I would agree that Shane's and Chris' coins are AT.

 

 

Mine is not....how dare you

 

 

Oh darn I forgot I already stated it for the record....I withdrawl my lawsuit your honor

 

Hey, I have knowingly bought AT coins too if they look nice and the premium isn't too bad (an extra $5 or $10 say). Luckily (knock on wood) they have all been pretty stable.

[PCcoins]

The Frankie does look AT from the images...and I have seen similar looking proof Franklins toned like this still in the packaging, but they usually are more brown/redish toning. I haven't seen one toned as purple as this one but that's not saying it can't happen.

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

AT!

[cpm9ball]

AT!

 

I still think the obverse is pretty, and because it is also a variety, I will submit it anyway. How often do you get to have a DDR AT?

 

Chris