Q. David Bowers on San Francisco half dimes

[shirohniichan]

Q. David Bowers claims that many half dimes struck in San Francisco were sent to China, and many of those were used as buttons or ornaments. I've read that he looked at a small hoard of scarce S half dimes back in the 1970s that came back from China (some with solder marks).

 

Does anyone know for sure how he knows many S half dimes went to China? Was it only because of the one hoard, was it due to a number of groups of them coming back from China, did he find documentation, or something else?

 

I have read a contemporary account of money in use in San Francisco in 1870, and the writer claimed half dimes weren't minted there because he hadn't seen any in circulation. I'm wondering if there are other references.

[RWB]

No idea. Did he mention the source material for the claim?

[shirohniichan]

No idea. Did he mention the source material for the claim?

 

I believe I read it in his book on the Brother Jonathan, and I didn't see any source referenced. He did mention the small hoard of half dimes from China, however.

[RWB]

A silver half dime had significent buying power in China. Frequent use as buttons would seen to be highly unlikely.

[shirohniichan]

I wonder what they were used for that would account for the solder.

 

I had an 1877-CC trade dollar with two assayer's chops I was happy to get until I saw the solder right smack in the middle of the eagle's breast. Maybe it was used as a pull handle on a drawer or something. I ended up returning it.

 

Unless we can find some documentation, I'll assume Bowers speculated based on the groups of coins that came back from China.

[disme]

Q. David Bowers claims that many half dimes struck in San Francisco were sent to China, and many of those were used as buttons or ornaments. I've read that he looked at a small hoard of scarce S half dimes back in the 1970s that came back from China (some with solder marks).

 

Does anyone know for sure how he knows many S half dimes went to China? Was it only because of the one hoard, was it due to a number of groups of them coming back from China, did he find documentation, or something else?

 

I have read a contemporary account of money in use in San Francisco in 1870, and the writer claimed half dimes weren't minted there because he hadn't seen any in circulation. I'm wondering if there are other references.

 

It is quite possible that half dimes were sent to China for use in this way. It is known that U.S. silver coins were not exported to China after 1850 (and perhaps by a much earlier date) for their monetary or silver content so use as ornate buttons or dress decorations is certainly within the realm of possibility.

 

Disme

[shirohniichan]

It is quite possible that half dimes were sent to China for use in this way. It is known that U.S. silver coins were not exported to China after 1850 (and perhaps by a much earlier date) for their monetary or silver content so use as ornate buttons or dress decorations is certainly within the realm of possibility.

 

Disme

 

Are you specifically referring to small denomination silver coins?

 

It is documented that the 1859-S silver dollars were struck expressly for trade with China, as were trade dollars, and I have seen a number of half dollars with chopmarks attesting to their use as trade bullion. BTW, my avatar is an 1858-S half dollar with multiple chops.

[DaveG]

shirohniichan is correct, Bowers discusses half dimes and their exportation (including their use as buttons) in his book on the Brother Jonathan

 

Page 84 contains the assertion that half dimes weren't minted in San Francisco (quoting John S. Hittell's The Resources of California, which Bowers dates as 1866).

 

Chapter 6 discusses the coins minted at the San Francisco Mint. In the section on the 1863-S half dime, Bowers says: "Many years ago the writer had a group of several hundred San Francisco Mint half dimes of the 1863 to 1872 years which had come back from China. Each had some silver scraped away at the center of the Liberty Seated figure on the obverse, a location where its removal would not be immediately noticed."

 

In the section on the 1864-S half dime he repeats Breen's assertion that over half of all know survivors are ex-jewelry coins - both in China and domestically.

 

There may be other references, but that's what I saw in a quick skim.

[disme]

It is quite possible that half dimes were sent to China for use in this way. It is known that U.S. silver coins were not exported to China after 1850 (and perhaps by a much earlier date) for their monetary or silver content so use as ornate buttons or dress decorations is certainly within the realm of possibility. Disme

 

Are you specifically referring to small denomination silver coins?

It is documented that the 1859-S silver dollars were struck expressly for trade with China, as were trade dollars, and I have seen a number of half dollars with chopmarks attesting to their use as trade bullion. BTW, my avatar is an 1858-S half dollar with multiple chops.

 

In the late 1860s, in preparation for the Mint Act of 1873, the Treasury investigated this point and it was discovered that American silver coins, and in particular the dollar, were not sent to China in payment for goods or for use as coinage. Instead, Spanish/Mexican dollars or bullion was used. John Huston, Jr., a former key official of the San Francisco Mint in the 1850s and 1860s, answered a series of questions on this point on June 8, 1868, and was in a good position to know the facts as he had dealt directly with importers and exporters in the China trade. (The Huston letter is in the National Archives.)

 

The Trade dollars were, as you state, exported to China but this was under different circumstances.

 

Huston noted that so much silver in ingots had been sent to China in the 1850s and 1860s that the Chinese mercantile houses were beginning to consider abandoning the Spanish/Mexican dollars and going to sycee silver for larger transactions. This changed somewhat when the U.S. Trade dollars arrived in competition with the Mexican dollars.

 

It is likely that the pieces you mention, with chopmarks, were sent out of necessity. The Huston letter makes it clear that he knew of no such shipments but this does not mean that they did not occur when the importers could not get all the bullion or Mexican dollars that they needed. Huston specifically stated that U.S. silver coins did not circulate in China but this does not mean that it did not happen, only that it was rare.

 

Disme

[shirohniichan]

It appears Huston wasn't "in the know" as much as he would like to have put on or that he conveniently forgot the 1859-S dollars and the many half dollars that went to China.

 

Mexican pesos and 8 reales were the preferred coins, but apparently some American traders didn't want to pay the premium for them and sent half dollars instead.

[disme]

It appears Huston wasn't "in the know" as much as he would like to have put on or that he conveniently forgot the 1859-S dollars and the many half dollars that went to China.

 

Mexican pesos and 8 reales were the preferred coins, but apparently some American traders didn't want to pay the premium for them and sent half dollars instead.

 

Actually he was very well versed on the subject, as he was the first melter & refiner at the San Francisco Mint and in private business in this field both in California and later in New York. However, shirohniichan raises some very good points.

 

The 1859–S dollars were struck for California merchants (for China) but the effort proved a failure as no more were struck until the early 1870s and even then in small amounts. It is also true, as shirohniichan notes, that merchants had to pay a premium – usually in the range of two or three percent against bullion value – to obtain Mexican dollars. However, the premium (against bullion value) for subsidiary U.S. silver coins in 1859 was more than six percent. It is therefore safe to say that minor silver coins were not exported to China from California except perhaps in isolated instances.

 

The most likely way of U.S. minor silver getting to China would have been the result of silver being hoarded and exported from this country after June 1862 (due to the Civil War), but only from the East as silver remained in daily use on the West Coast. Great masses of U.S. silver, mainly half dollars, were exported to Canada, Central America, and even as far south as Chile. In these countries the coins were used both as bullion and local coinage. As these coins were treated simply as bullion in many cases it is possible that, in a few cases, U.S. half dollars were used as bullion when Mexican dollars could not be readily obtained. Whether they were shipped to China from the U.S. or somewhere else cannot now be determined.

 

Disme

[nwcs]

Interesting story developing here. Something for present/future detectives to piece together.

[shirohniichan]

I've seen a number of chopmarked San Francisco half dollars from the 1860s. By the 1870s subsidiary silver coinage had become a glut on the market (according to Carothers). It could be that subsidiary silver was common in the late 1860s before trade dollars were struck. That at least could account for half dollars going to China in bulk. BTW, I have a chopmarked 4 reales, but I think it is probably scarcer that chopped US half dollars.