They are putting the hammer down again across the street

[WinstonWare]

The post applauding the new rules sickens me. I hate Uncle Toms.

Nice

 

• Uncle Tom: (ethnic slur) offensive and derogatory name for a Black man who is abjectly servile and deferential to Whites

 

www.wordnetweb.princeton.ed

 

I know exactly what it means and it’s the perfect metaphor. Where I come from/how I was raised/(however you want to say it) when someone makes a series of points that starts with “We make the rules and we don’t care what you have to say” and ends with “See rule 1 (we make the rules and we don’t care what you have to say),” the appropriate retort is not “thank you may I have another.” It’s not relevant if one agrees with points 2 & 5 or 3 & 7 or whatever. You stand by your people; you don’t thank the higher authority for coming down on your people…hence the Uncle Tom reference.

 

Sorry, I didn't even read this definition previously because I know what it means. I use Merriam Webster as my working definition. It is not a racial slur.

 

a member of a low-status group who is overly subservient to or cooperative with authority

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/uncle%20tom

[TonerGuy]

The difference is that PCGS is not attempting to deny anyone the right to say anything he might wish--merely the privilege of saying it on a site that they pay for.

 

Just because they pay for it, doesnt necessarily mean that they have the right to make the rules... at least in the real physical world it doesnt.

 

The US Surepeme Court has found that if you own a private property that closely mimics the form and function of previous spaces know as "town-squares" in so much that if the owner (1) invites the public onto their property and (2) the property is a gathering place for the exchange of information, leisure, entertainment they cannot quell free speech.

 

Not sure how it would apply to a forum message board, but it does apply to real world "property" and to a certain extent cyberspace is treated as "property."

 

The First Amendment has been extended to commercial speech and it does apply to private individuals and companies not just governmental bodies.

 

Further, in the US just because you pay for something doesnt always equate to ownership.

 

Just something to think about....

[BillJones]

The difference is that PCGS is not attempting to deny anyone the right to say anything he might wish--merely the privilege of saying it on a site that they pay for.

 

Just because they pay for it, doesnt necessarily mean that they have the right to make the rules... at least in the real physical world it doesnt.

 

The US Surepeme Court has found that if you own a private property that closely mimics the form and function of previous spaces know as "town-squares" in so much that if the owner (1) invites the public onto their property and (2) the property is a gathering place for the exchange of information, leisure, entertainment they cannot quell free speech.

 

Not sure how it would apply to a forum message board, but it does apply to real world "property" and to a certain extent cyberspace is treated as "property."

 

The First Amendment has been extended to commercial speech and it does apply to private individuals and companies not just governmental bodies.

 

Further, in the US just because you pay for something doesnt always equate to ownership.

 

Just something to think about....

 

True.

 

But at least currently, you do have to right to decline to buy their service and walk or perhaps run away.

[cpm9ball]

The post applauding the new rules sickens me. I hate Uncle Toms.

Nice

 

• Uncle Tom: (ethnic slur) offensive and derogatory name for a Black man who is abjectly servile and deferential to Whites

 

www.wordnetweb.princeton.ed

 

I know exactly what it means and it’s the perfect metaphor. Where I come from/how I was raised/(however you want to say it) when someone makes a series of points that starts with “We make the rules and we don’t care what you have to say” and ends with “See rule 1 (we make the rules and we don’t care what you have to say),” the appropriate retort is not “thank you may I have another.” It’s not relevant if one agrees with points 2 & 5 or 3 & 7 or whatever. You stand by your people; you don’t thank the higher authority for coming down on your people…hence the Uncle Tom reference.

 

Sorry, I didn't even read this definition previously because I know what it means. I use Merriam Webster as my working definition. It is not a racial slur.

 

a member of a low-status group who is overly subservient to or cooperative with authority

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/uncle%20tom

 

Then you should reread your American History. I don't care what Merriam Webster says, today, as opposed to 150 years ago. Face it, you don't feel that you should apologize to okbustchaser. Everyone is supposed to think like you........hmm!........sounds like PCGS, doesn't it!

 

Chris

[WinstonWare]

......and I still think you owe okbustchaser an apology.

 

Chris

 

Okay I’m not entirely clear on where or how I offended okbustchaser but that was not my intent at all. I apologize okbustchaser. I’ve always admired your coins and appreciated your input.

[WinstonWare]

Then you should reread your American History. I don't care what Merriam Webster says, today, as opposed to 150 years ago. Face it, you don't feel that you should apologize to okbustchaser. Everyone is supposed to think like you........hmm!........sounds like PCGS, doesn't it!

 

Chris

 

I think I was posting my apology while you posted this. Ironically, I got to using the term “uncle tom” from watching and listening to Muhammad Ali.

[kryptonitecomics]

I think you are dead wrong winston and as punishment I think you should send me a toned Morgan of my chosing....perhaps even a battle creek

 

 

Wow....how does everyone feel now....I know I feel a lot better

[okbustchaser]

I think your going out of your way to give people the benefit of the doubt when PCGS has gone out of it’s way for years to ensure that only its loyal subjects post there.

 

Thank you for not being obtuse.

 

Are PCGS forum members more like circus dogs rather than circus cats? They do as they are told rather than what they want?

 

I've always enjoyed your opinion(s) winstonware and today is no exception- whether I agree with you or not.

 

I’m sorry. Maybe I’m not understanding. Are you suggesting that PCGS hasn’t gone out of its way to ensure that only people who voice favorable opinions of PCGS post there? As far as cats and dogs go, I’m a forum member of PCGS, or at least I was. I honestly don’t know if I still have posting privileges there. I’ve never had any issue with people posting there. I’ve just never cared for the “thanks PCGS” posts after PCGS tells all the board members it’s their way or the highway.

 

I'm not Braddick, so I can't speak for what he meant, but I will disagree with your statement that "PCGS has gone out of its way to ensure that only people who voice favorable opinions of PCGS post there."

 

I have (and so have many others) been quite veheminent on their boards when I disagreed with either PCGS or a poster. I have never had a problem with stating that I feel there is absolutely no good that resulted from the rise of third party grading by any company--including theirs. I have consistantly maintained that their current grading standards (although admittedly stronger than in the past) are entirely too loose on circulated material.

 

I HAVE, however, tried to remain within the bounds of common courtesy and therein lies the difference. Many posters over there don't and deserve to be called on it.

[cpm9ball]

I think you are dead wrong winston and as punishment I think you should send me a toned Morgan of my chosing....perhaps even a battle creek

 

 

Wow....how does everyone feel now....I know I feel a lot better

 

I'd feel a lot better if you would send me that 1887 with the toned reverse that you posted.

 

C H R I S

[gmarguli]

Amazing. Perhaps all posters there are "your people", but that isn't the case for everyone else. Your replies seem to assume that everyone who posts there wants or should want the same thing, which clearly isn't the case. And the fact that they feel differently than you do about the rules doesn't make their responses any less honest, sincere or valid.You should try to see things through other people's eyes and not just your own, but apparently you can't or wont. I give up.

 

It will be as soon as the ethnic cleansing is complete.

[cpm9ball]

Amazing. Perhaps all posters there are "your people", but that isn't the case for everyone else. Your replies seem to assume that everyone who posts there wants or should want the same thing, which clearly isn't the case. And the fact that they feel differently than you do about the rules doesn't make their responses any less honest, sincere or valid.You should try to see things through other people's eyes and not just your own, but apparently you can't or wont. I give up.

 

It will be as soon as the ethnic cleansing is complete.

 

C H R I S

[DC Dawg]

Youse guys are amazing. This thread went from PCGS, free speech, name calling, chest thumping, apologies, righteous indignation, capitulation, to comedy. This is why I love these boards!

 

OTOH, that most of the posts here are civil is a good thing. When someone strays from civility, there are a few people around to remind us of the . This is a good thing.

 

Scott

[cpm9ball]

........When someone strays from civility, there are a few people around to remind us of the . This is a good thing.

 

Scott

 

What ?

[DC Dawg]

........When someone strays from civility, there are a few people around to remind us of the . This is a good thing.

 

Scott

 

What ?

The unwritten of civility. This is probably why Arch added some of these smileys!

 

Some of them are funny!

[cpm9ball]

........When someone strays from civility, there are a few people around to remind us of the . This is a good thing.

 

Scott

 

What ?

The unwritten of civility. This is probably why Arch added some of these smileys!

 

Some of them are funny!

 

I like this one...............

 

Chris

[BillJones]

I have never had a problem with stating that I feel there is absolutely no good that resulted from the rise of third party grading by any company--including theirs. I have consistantly maintained that their current grading standards (although admittedly stronger than in the past) are entirely too loose on circulated material.

 

There is some truth to this statement about circulated material, but I would not go so far as to say that ALL certified circulated coins are over graded. It seems to me that the TPGs go in spurts. If you go back more than a decade ago, there was a lot of over grading of circulated material, especially for key dates, like 1916-D Mercury dimes and 1877 Indian cents among others. In fact the TPG single handedly lowered the standards for grading Mercury dimes. The old VG became the new VF. In order get a coin with full vertical lines in the ax, you had to buy at least an EF graded coin, and even than it was iffy. That degraded standard has remained but others have been tightened a bit.

 

I’m not nearly as negative about the third party grading of the LEADING firms as you are. They have a lot of good when it comes to grading Proof and Mint State material, and their role in combating counterfeits, given the activities of the Chinese, is now essential to the survival of the hobby. Slabs are better than the ANACS papers because it almost impossible to switch the coins, which could have happened in the old days.

 

I have no desire to shut the TPGs down; I just wish they, at times, were more consistent in applying their standards. I also wish that they were more willing to admit that they have made some mistakes, and accept the fact they don’t have corner on expertise when it comes to grading coins.

 

[ziggy29]

I have no desire to shut the TPGs down; I just wish they, at times, were more consistent in applying their standards. I also wish that they were more willing to admit that they have made some mistakes, and accept the fact they don’t have corner on expertise when it comes to grading coins.

 

Personally I see most of their value in authenticating better dates and perhaps rejecting the worst problem coins. Of course, pretty much all of them have started diluting their brand with serious problem coins in "genuine" holders, so that horse has left the barn.

 

Despite that, the TPGs are certainly worthwhile in terms of authentication. I'd rather let the market do the grading, though.

 

[BillJones]

I don't have a problem with putting really rare coins in "genuine" or net graded holders. I've seen 1796 quarters and an 1804 $10 gold piece is such holders, and such pieces do deserve to be recognized a genuine rarities with problems. I don't care for the practices of dealers who cover up the parts of the holder to hide the problem coin wording and then put their own no problem grade on it.

[Schatzy]

[Conder101]

Youse guys are amazing. This thread went from PCGS, free speech, name calling, chest thumping, apologies, righteous indignation, capitulation, to comedy.

Yes it clearly went off-topic, if it had been on the PCGS forum under the new rules we would all be banned.

 

Oh, wait a minute, I already am. Twice!

[WoodenJefferson]

So, your a twofor...most are only onesies.

[braddick]

Amazing. Perhaps all posters there are "your people", but that isn't the case for everyone else. Your replies seem to assume that everyone who posts there wants or should want the same thing, which clearly isn't the case. And the fact that they feel differently than you do about the rules doesn't make their responses any less honest, sincere or valid.You should try to see things through other people's eyes and not just your own, but apparently you can't or wont. I give up.

 

It will be as soon as the ethnic cleansing is complete.

 

Ahhh, PCGS management is the "NCS" of the coin forum community!

<insert-thumbs-up-smilie-here>

[WoodenJefferson]

[cpm9ball]

 

Woody!!!!!! How many times do I have to tell you? This is not the

 

danged washer!

 

Chris

[WoodenJefferson]

Did arrogance on the part of this auction house drive potential customers from bidding record levels? (see paragraph 11)

 

Antiques Roadshow

 

Items appraised on Antiques Roadshow Monday night.

 

Is there a lesson here?

 

[IrishMike]

Although the tone of Don's post was a tad bit harsh, I am for one glad that it was made. One less jelly donut thread cluttering up the coin forum is a good thing.

[WinstonWare]

Is there a way to delete one's pcgs account? I logged in and apparently I do still have an active account there. I can’t find a way to delete my account though.

[ziggy29]

Although the tone of Don's post was a tad bit harsh, I am for one glad that it was made. One less jelly donut thread cluttering up the coin forum is a good thing.

I'm all for uncluttering the OT stuff, but there are some legitimate numismatic discussion points that are choked off by these edicts. And I'm not even talking about the PCGS-bashing stuff, because I wouldn't want to put up with people badmouthing me in my house, either.

 

Having said that, the line between "constructive criticism" and "bashing" isn't always clear.

[bartlesvilleok]

I think the post was just a dumb thing for them to do. The main thing is how they worded it. It was very rude and demeaning. Why will people put up being talked to like this? Yes it is there board but we are still the customer. Just think about going to your local store to buy milk and something happens to you so you have a complaint. Maybe the restrooms are dirty so you ask to speak to a manager to let them know about it. Once the manager gets there they tell you they will not put up with your complains you need to leave. Maybe someone took your parking place out on the lot and a manager sees this and tells the customer they need to leave they are not going to put up with people honking there horn.

 

There is no way anyone would put up with being talked to like this in any type of B&M store so why the internet?

[WinstonWare]

There is no way anyone would put up with being talked to like this in any type of B&M store so why the internet?

 

If it was from a high ranking member of PCGS what makes you so sure that people wouldn’t accept it in person? There is more approval than dissention for that post ATS.

 

I still can't figure out how to delete my PCGS account!