Trivia Question (Gobrecht Dollars)

[EVillageProwler]

The ``regular'' 1836-dated issues (name on base) were issued in two batches spanning two years.

 

How does one tell between a 12/36-issued specimen from an 3/37-issued one?

 

EVP

 

[swhuck]

By going back in time?

[keithdagen]

The 12/36 specimens are in Die Alignment I, while the March specimens are in Die Alignments II through IV.

[Tradedollarnut]

Quit spreading that false rumor!

[EVillageProwler]

Keith,

 

That diagnostic is open to debate. Some say that there are 3/37 specimens of Alignment I. There is another diagnostic that I find more credible.

 

EVP

 

[keithdagen]

OK, second shot

 

The 1836 specimens weigh 416 grains, while the 1837's weigh 412.5.

 

Both stabs from pretty credible numismatic sources.

[EVillageProwler]

Keith,

 

You are correct, but you left out one piece of the info that would make your response more complete.

 

EVP

 

[keithdagen]

EVP,

 

That's all I could glean from Heritage auction write-ups and the blurb in Bowers' Type book. Anything else will have to come from someone else.

[EVillageProwler]

Keith,

 

Check the fineness. Pre-1837, .8924 at 416 grains. 1837, .900 at 412.5 grains.

 

EVP

 

[keithdagen]

Aha, not emphasized in either resource.

 

Of course, neither the weight or the fineness is going to be something that you're going to be able to easily test on the bourse floor.

[EVillageProwler]

True, Keith.

 

I added the fineness in because coins lose weight as they get worn down. And, the planchets aren't all of perfect weight to begin with. The fineness simply adds another aspect with which to discern.

 

BTW, one of the big drawbacks of slabbing is that it increases the difficulty to discern such matters. My specimen was from a Heritage auction nearly 4 years ago. Heritage, or someone, apparently had the coin tested just to make sure. (Mine is from the 12/36 batch.)

 

EVP

 

[keithdagen]

Is there any kind of value difference between the 12/36 and the 3/37 specimens?

 

When collecting the Gobrecht dollars for Type, most collectors don't really distinguish between the various kinds, even though there are many combinations of name placement and stars.

[EVillageProwler]

There is not, to my knowledge, a price difference. I think there shouldn't be any price difference because there's no great difference between the two.

 

EVP

 

[BillJones]

My coin, which is considered to be a restrike because of the alignment (I believe it is IV) weighs 416 grains. It's one of a number that Dave Bowers examined when he was researching for his silver dollar books the has the weight of old silver dollar standard. The standard was 412 grains. That led him to speculate that these coins with the eagle flying flat instead of "onward and upward" could have been the original strikes. Unfortunatley there is no die state evidence to really nail this question down.

 

Still, if all of the "flat flying alignment eagles" are restrikes, which are so many of them in circulated condition? One would think that coin collectors would have preserved at least a good number of them in better condition.

[EVillageProwler]

Bill,

 

There are two possibilities for your Alignment IV, 416 grains specimen:

 

1. rotated reverse hub

2. wrong (left-over) planchet used during a 3/37 striking

 

As for the upward-onward vs flat aspect, that's possibly due to a loose, rotated reverse die. If you notice, the issue of flat vs upward-onward is the rotational alignment of the obv die relative to the rev die. It actually has nothing to do with the alignment of the eagle relative to the other devices of the rev.

 

EVP

 

[BillJones]

The question about my coin is whether or not it was stuck in the 1850s, which is when the restrikes were said to have been made. I would be as happy as a pig in stuff if it turns out that the coin was struck in either 1836 or 1837, but the current consus is that it was made 20 years later. Many consider these later restrikes to be step children to the "real thing."

 

Still the coin weighs 416 grains, which is the old standard. Why would the mint have prepared 416 grain planchets in the 1850s when the standard was 412 grains? And why if people paid more than face value for them in the late 1850s are so many of them worn? Other special coins, including Proofs, were saved from that peroid. Why did so many of these pieces get used?