eBay auction sale help!!!!

[kbsig106]

I hope someone can help me with some advice.

 

 

I sold a NGC Morgan on eBay two weeks ago and mailed it out on 11/3 in a protective envelope - first class as stated in the auction. Now it is two weeks later and the coin has not arived at its destination. The buyer is concerned, I'm concerned and all I have is a USPS receipt showing ther weight, location, zip code, type of envelope, zone 3 - first class and cost.

 

Now the buyer wants his money back - understandable - but I have proof it was sent on my end and have no proof that the buyer did or didn't receive the coin. I have notifed my PO supervisor and they're going to look on Monday to see if it did not leave the building.

 

We're looking at about $129 - so not big numbers and under the $250+ signature confirmation paypal requires.

 

I want to be a stand up guy, but not get taken - so what does one do? Partial refund, full refund, no refund - this is a eBay/paypal first for me after 9 years...

 

[Conder101]

It is under the $250 signature confirmation, but it still falls under the delivery confirmation requirement. If you didn't buy delivery confirmation, or if it doesn't show as delivered, paypal will side with the buyer and he will be refunded with the money coming out of your account. If you insured the package through the post office and it doesn't show as delivered then you could try and get compensation from the Post Office. Frankly though at only two weeks it is still too soon to file a claim I believe.

 

Frankly though from the information you have posted (Sounds like First class, no insurance, no delivery confirm) it looks like you are going to be out the coin and the money.

[Schatzy]

That why delivery confirmation is great.

If you use paypal shipping it only costs $0.19.

[MarkW]

I've had only one shipped package "disappear" after an ebay sale. Fortunately, I had insurance. You're example is another reason to always ship with insurance and delivery confirmation and track the package to the destination. Unfortunately, in this case, you lose. Full refund.

[James_OldeTowne]

When I was doing eBay, I self-insured and never lost money. Sorry, but I think you are out this one.

[bsshog40]

What everyone else said. Delivery Conformation is a good habit.

[kbsig106]

You live and learn - I'll refund them their purchase price.

 

What sucks is you can't do delivery confirmation at the USPS APC for 1st class mail, but you can do it through ebay/paypal. I would have added that option if I could at the APC and would have avoided this mess. I mail out some much stuff w/ my other business I go to the PO every day - so it was nothing out of the ordinary.

 

I'm still going to be on the look-out for the NGC S/N to pop back up and nail who ever has it as long as it takes. I have the org. NGC paper work when I had it graded.

 

 

Thanks for the insight.

 

 

 

 

 

[bartlesvilleok]

Part of this could be just USPS being VERY slow. I had ordered an item on ebay that was shipped on 11/2/09 and it just got here yesterday and the location it was from was not very far away. Maybe you will get lucky and it will come tomorrow

[kbsig106]

Part of this could be just USPS being VERY slow. I had ordered an item on ebay that was shipped on 11/2/09 and it just got here yesterday and the location it was from was not very far away. Maybe you will get lucky and it will come tomorrow

 

Well if it does and I end up refunding his money a day or two before - I then hope the buyer is as honest as I've been...

 

 

Thank you again for the insight - I'll be a little more careful.

 

 

 

 

[TomB]

You have to refund the buyer. Please note that even if you added Delivery Confirmation that you still would be out the money since you did not purchase insurance from what I can tell in your post. Shipping insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. Delivery Confirmation only shows that the package was delivered somewhere, but does not show that the buyer received the item. Delivery Confirmation is a requirement of proper shipping of items under $250 using PayPal, but in no way proves the buyer has the item. Therefore, you should have used Delivery Confirmation to protect your rights under PayPal and should have used private or USPS insurance to make certain you would be reimbursed in the event of loss or damage.

[kbsig106]

Cancelled and refunded - if it does show up back here, no problem. If the buyer does end up with the coin, lets hope he does the right thing and sends the funds back.

 

 

 

[bsshog40]

You have to refund the buyer. Please note that even if you added Delivery Confirmation that you still would be out the money since you did not purchase insurance from what I can tell in your post. Shipping insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. Delivery Confirmation only shows that the package was delivered somewhere, but does not show that the buyer received the item. Delivery Confirmation is a requirement of proper shipping of items under $250 using PayPal, but in no way proves the buyer has the item. Therefore, you should have used Delivery Confirmation to protect your rights under PayPal and should have used private or USPS insurance to make certain you would be reimbursed in the event of loss or damage.

Maybe, but delivery confirmation does prove that it was delivered to the address. This would probably deter someone from trying to rip someone off if the shipper made them aware that the item was delivered at the address.

[TomB]

You have to refund the buyer. Please note that even if you added Delivery Confirmation that you still would be out the money since you did not purchase insurance from what I can tell in your post. Shipping insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. Delivery Confirmation only shows that the package was delivered somewhere, but does not show that the buyer received the item. Delivery Confirmation is a requirement of proper shipping of items under $250 using PayPal, but in no way proves the buyer has the item. Therefore, you should have used Delivery Confirmation to protect your rights under PayPal and should have used private or USPS insurance to make certain you would be reimbursed in the event of loss or damage.

Maybe, but delivery confirmation does prove that it was delivered to the address. This would probably deter someone from trying to rip someone off if the shipper made them aware that the item was delivered at the address.

The statement that I highlighted in bold is absolutely incorrect. Delivery Confirmation means that someone at the post office scanned the barcode of the package, but it does not mean that the package was either delivered to the intended address or delivered at all.

[bsshog40]

You have to refund the buyer. Please note that even if you added Delivery Confirmation that you still would be out the money since you did not purchase insurance from what I can tell in your post. Shipping insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. Delivery Confirmation only shows that the package was delivered somewhere, but does not show that the buyer received the item. Delivery Confirmation is a requirement of proper shipping of items under $250 using PayPal, but in no way proves the buyer has the item. Therefore, you should have used Delivery Confirmation to protect your rights under PayPal and should have used private or USPS insurance to make certain you would be reimbursed in the event of loss or damage.

Maybe, but delivery confirmation does prove that it was delivered to the address. This would probably deter someone from trying to rip someone off if the shipper made them aware that the item was delivered at the address.

The statement that I highlighted in bold is absolutely incorrect. Delivery Confirmation means that someone at the post office scanned the barcode of the package, but it does not mean that the package was either delivered to the intended address or delivered at all.

Well I presume this is where we have to have trust that the carrier actually dropped the package off at the address.

[prudden]

You have to refund the buyer. Please note that even if you added Delivery Confirmation that you still would be out the money since you did not purchase insurance from what I can tell in your post. Shipping insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. Delivery Confirmation only shows that the package was delivered somewhere, but does not show that the buyer received the item. Delivery Confirmation is a requirement of proper shipping of items under $250 using PayPal, but in no way proves the buyer has the item. Therefore, you should have used Delivery Confirmation to protect your rights under PayPal and should have used private or USPS insurance to make certain you would be reimbursed in the event of loss or damage.

Maybe, but delivery confirmation does prove that it was delivered to the address. This would probably deter someone from trying to rip someone off if the shipper made them aware that the item was delivered at the address.

The statement that I highlighted in bold is absolutely incorrect. Delivery Confirmation means that someone at the post office scanned the barcode of the package, but it does not mean that the package was either delivered to the intended address or delivered at all.

 

In some of places,individual mail carriers have a hand-held scanner they use to confirm delivery. Don't know ho wide spread it is yet.

[bsshog40]

I know that everytime I've received a package when I was home, the carrier did have a scanner that scanned the package. They usually leave my packages at the door if I'm not home, I have no nieghbors so theft has not been a problem, and I do presume that it is scanned when left at my door also.

[CHABSENTIA]

When the carrier delivers a package to my home that has delivery confirmation then I see him scanning the package and he leaves it in the mailbox. If insurance has been purchased then I have to sign for it. As far as the Post Office and the person who sent the package is concerned the package has been delivered to the address. If you claim that the package was not delivered and it had no insurance then you are out of luck.

[Mark T]

You have to refund the buyer. Please note that even if you added Delivery Confirmation that you still would be out the money since you did not purchase insurance from what I can tell in your post. Shipping insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. Delivery Confirmation only shows that the package was delivered somewhere, but does not show that the buyer received the item. Delivery Confirmation is a requirement of proper shipping of items under $250 using PayPal, but in no way proves the buyer has the item. Therefore, you should have used Delivery Confirmation to protect your rights under PayPal and should have used private or USPS insurance to make certain you would be reimbursed in the event of loss or damage.

Maybe, but delivery confirmation does prove that it was delivered to the address. This would probably deter someone from trying to rip someone off if the shipper made them aware that the item was delivered at the address.

The statement that I highlighted in bold is absolutely incorrect. Delivery Confirmation means that someone at the post office scanned the barcode of the package, but it does not mean that the package was either delivered to the intended address or delivered at all.

 

 

Tom are you sure about this ?? Delivery confirmation is suppose to ensure that the package was actually delivered to the address.

 

Attached is a detailed report of a package I recently shipped via USPS .

You can see all the scans from origination to destination.

 

I am always home when I receive my coins via USPS priority mail - the mail man scans the package before he gives it to me. I track all my packages, I know when I am getting it so I will wait for the mail man to show up. Unless it is Registered mail I have not had to sign for these packages even though the Insurance on them is sometimes substantial . I was told by the post office that packages with insurance over a certain amount need a delivery signature confirmation.

 

[kbsig106]

Update - coin never arrived and I sent the buyer a refund. So somewhere out there is a MS 60 PL Morgan floating around...

 

 

 

[gbsten]

Whenever I send an item of value in the mail I always purchase at least the minimum insurance. Even if I purchase $50 in coverage on a $300 item I think that most people will not attempt fraud when the package is shipped "insured". The PO employees don't want the hassle, and who wants to risk dealing with a Postal Inspector? It's easier to wait for someone to ship the uninsured package!

[CHABSENTIA]

I notice that EBay in now recommending that the Seller provide Insurance. Some do and some dont. I have paid shipping anywhere from $2.98 to $10.00.,Some of the sellers claim that they lose $.50 and some claim that they break even and some sayy htey make a profit. Som sellers say that they keep their shipping prices low because the buyer will complain about it in their feedback as either being to slow or too expensive. Some give a choice between standard and paying extra for Priority.

 

I dont mind paying more to have it shipped from California to Florida. I have had standard mail including just letters take 5 days from California . I try to factor it in the bid price. I know that buyers sometimes gripe about the cost etc but it is written into the particular sellers site so I could never understand why people woujld bid on a coin and then whine about a posted price.

 

You are correct about the fact that "insured" mail is handled different and greater care is taken to ensure its delivery. I know that "registered mail is locked up and the carrier has to sign for it before he goes out on his route. I dont think the "insured" is given the same lock-up procedures as "registered" but it is

separate and the carrier must also sign for it so there is a better paper trail and the carrier cant claim that he never received it.

 

There can be delivery confirmation without insurance and delivery confirmation with insurance. . Both can show delivery without a signature and just be scanned and placed in your mailbox. If you want something delivered via signature then you have to pay an additional cost. So you could get a signature with or without delivery confirmation etc. Most of the coins I get from E Bay require no signature but every one from Teletrade or David Lawerence requires one.

 

I never send my coins for grading to NGC as "registered" most of the time because Sarasota is only a few hundred miles from me where I live in Florida. I send them in the "Priority" box or envelope and insure them for their value.Lately I have received them back in two days after NGC has shipped them, Sometimes it is three because registered mail can be a day later because of its special handling. I am home most of the time and except for the heavt Christmas season you can set your watch by the carrier with about 15 minutes.

[WoodenJefferson]

Update - coin never arrived and I sent the buyer a refund. So somewhere out there is a MS 60 PL Morgan floating around...

 

Rest assured it will be in someone's Christmas stocking.

[kbsig106]

Update - coin never arrived and I sent the buyer a refund. So somewhere out there is a MS 60 PL Morgan floating around...

 

Rest assured it will be in someone's Christmas stocking.

 

 

and a lump of coal too.

 

[Conder101]

Tom are you sure about this ?? Delivery confirmation is suppose to ensure that the package was actually delivered to the address.

 

Attached is a detailed report of a package I recently shipped via USPS .

You can see all the scans from origination to destination.

Yes he's sure. Even on the "detailed" report you posted it just says it was delivered. It says nothing about WHERE it was delivered.

 

In some of places,individual mail carriers have a hand-held scanner they use to confirm delivery.

And if they are standing at the wrong address when they scan the package and leave it?? As far as delivery confirmation is concerned. . . it was delivered.

[Mark T]

Tom are you sure about this ?? Delivery confirmation is suppose to ensure that the package was actually delivered to the address.

 

Attached is a detailed report of a package I recently shipped via USPS .

You can see all the scans from origination to destination.

Yes he's sure. Even on the "detailed" report you posted it just says it was delivered. It says nothing about WHERE it was delivered.

 

In some of places,individual mail carriers have a hand-held scanner they use to confirm delivery.

And if they are standing at the wrong address when they scan the package and leave it?? As far as delivery confirmation is concerned. . . it was delivered.

 

Ok now I understand what Tom meant. Nice flaw in the delivery confirmation system at USPS. I was told by USPS that packages with insurance over a certain value must be signed for. However some of my USPS priority mail packages from Heritage did not require me to sign anything and they were well over the limit needed for signature. Once when I did not look for the mail man for delivery the priority mail package was just left in my mail box.

[CHABSENTIA]

I check mine when I am given tracking information and it tells you that it was handed over at such and such a time at such and such a post office, It then tells you when and what post office it arrived at and then it tells you that it was "accepted at the destination" or delivered to the destination".

 

I am not sure if the "accepted at destination" means that it is signed for at the destination or just another way of saying that it was delivered to the destination. When I send my coins to NGC I always gets an accepted at destination and I know that soembody is there to accept it. I get the same message for coins sent to Teletrade.

 

My three dogs raise hell if anybody comes near the house until they see if they know them. I have looked out the window at this time and have seen the mail carrier scanning the package with coin/s and then put them in my mailbox.He rings the door bell if I have to sign for something but I already know that somebody is there.

 

I dont know how they work in different areas. There are times when Insured Registered and Priority mail is delivered from the Main P,O to my branch post office where the carriers sort their mail for the area. They do this after the carrie has left to start his route. My carrier will go back to the branch post office and if any of the above has been delivered while he was on the route then he signs for it and goes out again and delivers just that mail. I use the tracking to see if I am due for any of the above and make sure that I stay home if it has been delivered to the Main P,O because I have no way of knowing if he is going to deliver it on his route or after the finish of it.If I am not there to sign for it then I am left a slip that I need to pick it up at the branch post office the next day after a certain time and will have to wait until then and stand in line.

 

Unless the P,O has a more detailed delivery status then there is no way to know if it was delivered to the right address or that it was just delivered to an address if all the carrier has to do is scan it and put it into the box. The way to make sure is to send it registered, insured or pay extra for a return receipt so that one has to sign for it.With insured or registered the carrier has to sign for it and there is better accountability. If somebody is getting mail in their mailbox without having to sign for it when they think that it was necesaary then either the sender didnt do it properly or the carrier didnt do it properly.

[Conder101]

I was told by USPS that packages with insurance over a certain value must be signed for.

That is true. If it is insured for over $200 it is supposed to be signed for. Insured for under $200 can just be left in the box.

 

However some of my USPS priority mail packages from Heritage did not require me to sign anything and they were well over the limit needed for signature.

Heritage either self insures, or has private insurance coverage so you don't see an insurance notice on packages from them and the post office doesn't get signatures.