There never was a 'bare breast' SL quarter controversy.

[RWB]

Re: “bare breast” Standing Liberty quarter situation.

 

There never was a controversy about Liberty on the Standing Liberty quarter. The “bare breast” stories – all of them from every source - are false.

 

Consider these real numismatic controversies:

 

In October 1907 the new Saint-Gaudens designed $10 eagles were released. Within a few days, letters began arriving at the Mint, Treasury, members of Congress and White House objecting to omission of the motto “In God We Trust.” Newspaper articles appeared and various petitions were sent to government officials. Many of these documents exist.

 

In Dec 1921 a published description of the new Peace dollar mentioned a broken sword. A NYC newspaper published a short editorial objecting to the broken sword calling it a sign of defeat, not peace. Within hours, telegrams and letters began bombarding the Mint, Treasury, White House, Commission of Fine Arts, and members of Congress. Most opposed the broken sword. Hundreds of these letters and telegrams exist.

 

On January 17, 1917 the new Standing Liberty quarters were released. (1916 and 1917 dated coins were mixed together.) Within a few days letters appeared from a British ornithologist in the Times of London, New York Times and Christian Science Monitor objecting to the position of the eagle’s talons. Rival letters also appeared. The matter was resolved when (according to Director Woolley) MacNeil produced a photograph taken in the Adirondacks of an eagle flying exactly as depicted on the quarter.

 

Now consider the “bare breast” controversy:

 

[This space intentionally left blank.] There was nothing.

 

The reality is that a controversy of one form or another leaves a public record of itself. The “bare breast” story left nothing because it did not exist. All of the tall tales are nothing but entertaining inventions. They tell us more about the mental and moral state of the perpetuators than of truth.

 

The real story of MacNeil’s struggle to get his designs coined is much more interesting and informative of its time, than any modern fabrication.

 

[stgecko]

Very nice and interesting post!

[physics-fan3.14]

The story of how the "controversy" story came about, and became so pervasive, might be interesting. Do you know who, when, where, why it was started?

[DWLange]

I suspect it began with Walter Breen. He was fond of finding controversy and conspiracy where there was none. He particularly enjoyed railing at puritanical practices and often ascribed numismatic themes to the issues of the day, even when there was no contemporary evidence to support it.

 

One has to read all of his books with a grain of salt, because Walter's own bitterness and cynicism infused everything he wrote. It's not insignificant that his great life's work, the book he was attempting most vigorously to have published before his death, was titled The Cynics' Dictionary.

[RWB]

Apparently post WW-II. Good subject for someone to examine. Hobby publications would be the key sources.

[WoodenJefferson]

Start with de-bunking Susan Headley

[James_OldeTowne]

I suspect it began with Walter Breen. He was fond of finding controversy and conspiracy where there was none. He particularly enjoyed railing at puritanical practices and often ascribed numismatic themes to the issues of the day, even when there was no contemporary evidence to support it.

 

One has to read all of his books with a grain of salt, because Walter's own bitterness and cynicism infused everything he wrote. It's not insignificant that his great life's work, the book he was attempting most vigorously to have published before his death, was titled The Cynics' Dictionary.

My thoughts pretty much exactly. Read Breen's introduction (in his Encyclopedia) on the the H.R. double-eagle to find more questionable "controversy" that I believe was entirely invented.

[jesbroken]

Thanks, great info RWB. But it is curious why they had McNeil redesign his dies midway of the 1917 issue(which just happened to cover Liberty's exposed breast).

That is interesting to say the least, unless you meant that there merely was not public outcry or outrage over the exposed breast and they did it to prevent such an outrage.

Would make a great read, regardless.

Jim

[prudden]

Thanks, great info RWB. But it is curious why they had McNeil redesign his dies midway of the 1917 issue(which just happened to cover Liberty's exposed breast).

That is interesting to say the least, unless you meant that there merely was not public outcry or outrage over the exposed breast and they did it to prevent such an outrage.

Would make a great read, regardless.

Jim

 

I'm thinking the same thing.Why was it changed only to cover the breast?

[RWB]

There was no Treasury or Mint objection to the design. It had been examined many times by multiple officials and the design revised at least twice.

 

MacNeil changed his design in many subtle ways and on both sides. He is specific about some of the changes. The best I can suggest is to read the material on the quarter in the RAC 1916-1921 book - it is interconencted and too complex to sumarize here.

[jesbroken]

I guess I am the dummy here that does not know what the RAC 1916-1921 book is nor how to access it----I tried google with no help. Please inform as to its whereabouts or availability.

Thanks

Jim

[physics-fan3.14]

I guess I am the dummy here that does not know what the RAC 1916-1921 book is nor how to access it----I tried google with no help. Please inform as to its whereabouts or availability.

Thanks

Jim

 

Renaissance of American Coinage, by RWB (Roger Burdette). Its a three volume oeuvre, and a par excellence tour-de-force

[RWB]

There are 3 volumes to RAC:

1905-1908 (Saint-Gaudens & Pratt gold)

1909-1915 (Lincoln cent , Buffalo nickel, Treasurer's hoard of gold, PPIE, pattern hub destruction, etc.)

1916-1921 (new dime, quarter, half, and Peace dollar)

 

There are typically 500+ footnotes and document references in each book, plus extensive quotes from original letters and memos, plus photos of never before published models and patterns. The books cover the origin, design and initial production of US coins during this era.(Don Taxay took 26 pages to cover this. RAC is nearly 1,000 pages.)

 

They won NLG book-of-the-year 3 years in a row and are #26 on the NBS all-time greatest numismatic literature list.

 

Wizard Coin Supply is the distributor.

[Conder101]

But it is curious why they had McNeil redesign his dies midway of the 1917 issue(which just happened to cover Liberty's exposed breast).

It is important to remember that at no time did the requested changes to the design address covering the breast. The instructions were specific as to what things were to be changed. (I seem to recall a letter reproduced in one of Jay Cline's books which specifically stated that no changes other than the ones agreed upon were to be made.)

 

As to why McNeil added the mail himself, the entire design is symbolic of Americas recognition of and preparation for the War in Europe. In 1916 WWI had already been going on for over two years. Liberty is shown at the Gateway to America looking to the east where the War was raging. She still holds the olive branch of piece but is beginning to prepare for war and is removing the covering from her shield. By 1917 it was becoming pretty clear that we would eventually be drawn into the conflict so while he was making the other changes McNiel added the chain mail. It was an obvious next step. If you are actually going to go to war you don your armor and don't go off unprotected. This reason for adding the mail is all speculation on my part but it makes sense combined with the earlier symbolism of the design. Liberty was preparing for war.

 

I agree though that there was no controversy and I have known that for over thirty years and for the same reason that Roger gave, no matter how many times the story was repeated no one could or did ever provide any contemporary evidence or sources. If it had been real there should have been some traceable quotes printed somewhere.

 

Then when the Cline book came out with correspondence between the mint and the designer discussing the design changes and no mention was ever made about covering the breast or mentioning any controversy that pretty well put the nail in the coffin for the bare breast outcry story.