The benefits of certification are? . . . . . . . . . SEE MY LIST, show us yours!

[James_OldeTowne]

Here's a post derived from one I made in another thread. I believe there are five benefits (real or perceived) of certification, and I rank them in this order, with their level of importance to me (10=critical, 1=I couldn't care less, 0=totally worthless). Please keep in mind that I collect both certified and un-certified coins. I own probably 200 or so in slabs, and perhaps 1000 that are not in slabs. (Don't be impressed by this quantity, many of my coins are quite low in value!)

 

I list the benefits of certification as:

• Authentication (10) The services virtually never get this wrong, and this is by far the biggest benefit of certification. I will not pay much numismatic premium if any for gold coinage unless it is certified, just as an example. For series I feel comfortable with, I don't feel the need for certification, and have never been burned yet, but there are too many series that I know nothing about, gold being the majority.
  
• Attribution (7) They get a fair share wrong, but overall, I think the services do a terrific job of attributing coins correctly. At worst, you can look up their attribution and confirm or refute what's on the slab. At best, always check their attibutions, and I think you'll find they are correct the vast majority of the time. I'd rank this of more importance, except that I attribute every coin anyway if I care about varieties in the series. I find VAMs to be the most helpful attributions, since I really don't enjoy attributing Morgans very much.
   
  
• Grade (4) The certified grade is simply another opinion, and not the end-all be-all that too many people think it is. Really, the best way to use this tool is to always grade the coin yourself first, then look at the slab and see if the certified grade sways your opinion in any way. Me personally, I have an ingrained habit of ALWAYS looking at the coin first, then the grade. Sometimes it's so bad that I don't even realize what brand of plastic I'm examining ! Unfortunately, this is also by far the most controversial benefit of certification, and that is too bad. I truly regret that "grade" plays such a dominant role in numismatics, seemingly obscuring more important aspects (to me) of coin collecting.
   
  
• Financial/Liquidity (2) A factor that means next to nothing for me. I personally couldn't care less if my coins are "easier to sell" since I usually buy to hold, and have outstanding success selling raw coins. In fact, I would state without hesitation that UNcertified coins bring overall a much better margin for me than certified, but then, I am into many series that are pursued by collectors of like mindset - no plastic is no problem. Sellers who need to "flip" coins more quickly than I need to, and who deal in more mainstream series (Morgan dollars, Walkers, moderns) will definitely disagree, and will really enjoy the liquidity aspect of certification. Also, the casual collector can enjoy some signficant financial protection, since at worst the certified grade usually puts a bottom threshold on a coin's value.
   
  
• Physical Protection (0) This is a "benefit" that I have positively no use for whatsoever. I will gladly give up all the slab "protection" in the world for the ability to examine a coin un-encumbered. As I've state before, it can be positively shocking how much better a coin looks out of a slab than in one. Furthermore, slab protection is not "reversible". You can't take the coin out and put it back into the slab and maintain the integrity of the certification. On the other hand, plenty of aftermarket devices offer at least as good protection as slabs, and ARE reversible. CoinWorld pseudo-slabs come to mind immediately. I personally love using albums and Eagle brand holders, and have never in ten years damaged a single coin.
  

So there you have it. Feel free to post your own list, slam my list, add new topics or just dismiss this thread altogether as useless.

 

 

[SlumLord98-migration]

Hi James,

 

As you know, my collecting interests are very narrow and don't catalog for an auction house, so any potential benefits will be similarly narrow.

1. Financial Liquidity (5)

No doubt about it, buyers today have a lot of trust in slabs and this is a real benefit if the coins are going to be sold.

 

2. Authenticity (1)

Since my interests are so narrow, I've learned what a real DBH looks like and doubt that anyone could put one over on me with an in-hand look. Buying online from unknown sellers would, of course, increase that risk so authenticity for this purpose would rank higher.

 

3.Physical Protection (1)

I don't pass around coins while at the bar, but did drop a medal on a concrete bourse floor. I can still hear that ring! Maybe this should rank higher but I want to see the edges of the coins.

 

Grading and attribution are irrelevant.

 

[Old Pueblo]

my number one is Authenticity! ....feeling confident that the coin is genuine as James pointed out this is important benefit.

 

 

 

[Mozin]

Authentication (1)

I normally only collect Capped Bust Series coins, so I don't feel the need for help on authentication.

 

Attribution (0)

I have no use for this service from the grading service. I can do a much better job.

 

Grade (5)

I am confident I can grade properly in my series of interest, but it is nice to have a second opinion. It also gives us something to argue about.

 

Financial/Liquidity (9)

Many buyers want to see the grading service grade, and the attribution if there is a variety. There is simply no way around this. Selling raw coins for over $400 each is not easy; dealers like the big spread, while collectors usually get the short end.

 

Physical Protection (7)

My entire collection is encapsulated. I like everything in order, and slabs make it easy to order. I have no need to handle raw coins at my age. I also find it difficult to view raw coins, again comes with age.

[jesbroken]

I'm comfortable with your list James, except I do care about physical protection to about a 5(your scale). I'm concentrating on an MS63RB and up IHC collection to the best of my financial abilities and protecting my collection is a high priority for me. As far as handling my coins, I do that before I have them encapsulated as I also take my best photos then, also. I then place the pictures in my made up Littletons which allows me to enlarge them to a 3 to 4 inch size if I want to really peruse the collection. My collection is safe and I've had the fun of seeing the coin inhand without the plastic encumbrance. I might rate financial/liquidity a point or so higher but I think yours would be ok. Great post, btw.

Jim

[jackson64]

a few others if I may........

 

--registration and participation in the registries ( highly enjoyable aspect of the hobby for me, even if I don't necessarily "compete" for rankings it is still nice to have a place for fellow collectors to view what I have assembled)

 

-- a degree of free "insurance"..there have been several instances of collections or at least part of a collection being recovered ( and even arrests being made) because the Cert #'s are more readily trackable than raw coins. Obviously the coins could be cracked out by the crooks, but some criminals are just plain dumb...

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Authentication (5) I've not yet seen a fake Franklin, and I am savvy enough to recognize most fakes in other series I actively collect. That being said, if I ever venture too far out of my chosen series, or think about a higher dollar coin, authentication is something I will definitely want.

 

Attribution (8) If you include FBL in the loosely defined "attribution" then it is very important to me. If you limit it to Overton and such, I can do a pretty good job most of the time. Again, within my limited experience and chosen series.

 

Grade (4) Eye appeal is more important than grade to me. I can grade the series I collect.

 

Financial/Liquidity (7) Because my collection represents a very large amount of money to me, I want the liquidity and financial protection should I be forced to sell.

 

Physical Protection (8) I am somewhat nervous by nature, so anything I can do to further protect my coins is great. James, you mentioned the coin world holders, and they are good - but the TPG slabs just look so much more professional (as well as being more secure). True story - my sister knocked a stack of slabs off the table once, including PCGS, NGC, and a Coin World slab. The NGC slab showed no change, the PCGS slab had a nick in one corner, and the Coin World slab popped open. Luckily, it was a low value Ike, and it stayed in the insert so was not damaged - but it freaked me out nonetheless. The protection of the slabs is not to be underrated!

 

Registry participation (10) As anyone can see by clicking the links in my signature, I enjoy the Registry. I am quite proud of it, even if my (award winning) Franklin set only ranks 49th.

[DC Dawg]

The only one I agree with is authentication as being the top reason, especially in this age of Chinese counterfeits. While some counterfeits are horrible, I worry about those who are improving their process. If you want to get nervous about counterfeits, you might want to read the articles by Skip Farazzi in Numismatic News about authentication. Some of his information can scare you into buying only slabbed coins!

 

The one I highly disagree with is financial/liquidity. While I do not plan to sell any of my coins, there may come a time when I have to sell, want to sell, or my heirs will sell these coins. I know when it comes time to sell, it will either be a time when I need the money or someone else needs the money. It will be easier to sell my better coins if graded.

 

As for protection, I think most slabs are ugly. I liked the new ANACS "Clearview" slab but with the blue label. I liked the NCS slab with the clear insert, but NCS will no longer certify coins after 9/1. Otherwise, they are all ugly... maybe even fugly! I found I like AirTite holders for many of my coins. I like the silver coins (Eagles, Britannias, Maple Leafs, and Pandas) in black ringed AirTites.

 

Other reasons for slabbing are just not interesting to me... except for the grade of the few registry sets I have. Otherwise, I can't tell the difference between an MS64 and MS65 so it doesn't bother me!!

 

Scott

[19Lyds]

On the other hand, plenty of aftermarket devices offer at least as good protection as slabs, and ARE reversible. CoinWorld pseudo-slabs come to mind immediately.

 

Hmmm. I bought some of those Coin World Slabs for some Kennedy Halves I was giving to a friend and I must say that getting the coin into the insert was not a pretty sight. Perhaps the insert was just a hair too small, I don;t know. The while point was that I don;t think I could have put a proof coin into the insert without significant hairline damage.

[Old Pueblo]

Moreover, having coin graded provide direct feedback to my grading skills.

It is a cost controlled lesson in positive feedback you could say.

I have been "off" a bit so far......but my skills are improving within the series that I collect. Perhaps it doesn't aways make financial sense to have a common coin graded but it is exciting when you get a pop.

[World Colonial]

I agree with your list except that to many or most collectors, the financial considerations are more important. Liquidity is a bigger in areas that are less widely colected than many or most US coins, such as those I collect and especially so since I do all my buying and selling online.

 

In terms of authenticity, I do not see that as an issue for most coins and my assumption is that either the counterfeiters have not gotten around to them because of the small number of collectors, because they have never heard of the coins or because of the relatively low value. I would expect that this would apply to most of the coin I collect.

[RareSov]

Good topic

 

Which part of your list covers "coin not being cleaned or otherwise damaged"

[$ilverHawk]

Once a coin has been authenicated its financial liquidity would be supported. Grading and attribution would then add to its value. Encapsulation would preserve the value.

 

1. Authenication

2. Financial/Liquidity

3. Grading

4. Attribution

5. Physical protection

[SkyMan]

Let's not forget (for us guys that seem to have fewer hairs in the morning than the previous night) a 10 for testing the strength of one's hair roots by attempting to pull one's hair out when the TPG's body bag, or grade and/or designation is ridiculous.

[HiHoAudio]

I certainly don't certify all of my coins, but if I have just spent several hundred dollars on a nice old European gold ducat I want to be sure it is authentic and not a Chinese counterfeit.

 

Can YOU tell that this is a fake double ducat? It is a Chinese counterfeit. I wanted in my heart to believe it was a presentation piece, probably because I paid so much. Plus the weight was right on the money.

 

 

It's too flat and too round. NGC saved me a lot of money which made up for the numerous coins returned in BB's over the years.

[michael]

keep telling the counterfeiters the fine points and the next generation of counterfeits produced; they just might get it past ngc

[WinstonWare]

--registration and participation in the registries ( highly enjoyable aspect of the hobby for me, even if I don't necessarily "compete" for rankings it is still nice to have a place for fellow collectors to view what I have assembled)

 

I was going to say that just for James . Ah, I'll say it anyway. Participation in the NGC registry.

[HiHoAudio]

I suppose you are right Michael. I'll button my lip. And for the record I only mentioned the two obvious defects, and not the other three.

 

I have stopped eating Chinese food to send a message to the Chinese counterfeiters. At the very least I'll probably lose a few pounds...

[James_OldeTowne]

I suppose you are right Michael. I'll button my lip. And for the record I only mentioned the two obvious defects, and not the other three.

 

I have stopped eating Chinese food to send a message to the Chinese counterfeiters. At the very least I'll probably lose a few pounds...

I think that is an exceptional fake. It would easily fool me.... which is why I would only buy it certified! Nice post.

[michael]

i agree exceptional fake

 

i am not knowledgable in these but man it would totally fool me and it is downright scary

 

and with computer aided design and much computer advancement i am really worried the learning curve is being greatly shortened

 

i think that there will always be some who can tell and hopefully these are the slabbing services keeping up with this

[stinkycheese1]

Since I collect gold coins, and especially US gold, authentication for me is a must. Even though I feel I am well versed in detecting them, I am not experienced enough (I haven't looked at thousands of raw gold coins) to detect all of them, although I could probably spot most. I'm not at the point where I can "look" at a coin and instantly deem it fake, because that only comes with experience. Still, I only buy certified gold or US gold from the mint directly. There is just too much counterfeit gold out there, especially 1840 and beyond where it thrives, 1870+ as well. I have bought one $5 indian head AU55 which I sent into PCGS and came back AU58...it was from a reputable shop in las vegas at the time called Sahara Coins, and a PCGS grader worked there. They changed ownership now, and I've not heard good things about them, but at the time when I bought the coin I didn't know better not to buy raw gold, luckily it ended up a no problem geniune coin.

 

1. Authenication (10)

2. Financial/Liquidity. This is important to me, if I ever decide to sell my coin since it is slabbed with a grade easier to sell (8)

3. Grading Again this is important to me because my counterfeit skills are up to par but not my grading skills (9)

4. Attribution Not really that important, I haven't really specialized in anything too much yet. (1)

5. Physical protection I'm kind of mixed here...on one hand I would love to be able to examine my coins without a holder, but I feel the holder protects it and is worth it, definitely a must, I love the slabs protection. (7)