We all understand the benefits of certifying and encapsulating coins, but...

[James_OldeTowne]

... I have to tell you, coins just look so much better when you can look at them unencumbered. Over the past week, I've cataloged a number of certified dollars, including proofs, and then I came across an UNcertified Seated Liberty proof dollar. WOW! The difference in visual impact and appreciation of artistry is amazing. The uncertified coin would not even qualify for as high a grade as the certified examples, yet the advantage of being able to see it completely UNencumbered made it seem so much nicer than the imprisoned examples. Truly, it was a memorable experience, looking at that huge silver dollar and being able to cast light upon it from any desired angle to bring out the details. And I didn't have to squint through a scratchy little plastic distortion-window to see it!

 

One thing is for sure, those guys who were at the mint making these works of art meant for them to be enjoyed!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I am glad to be able to collect coins both in and out of slabs. But if only "grade" wasn't the be-all, end-all that it is, I would always choose to examine my coins without encumbrance. Those younger folks who have only ever known certified coins may not know what they are missing. It's a rare experience these days.

over, although this wasn't meant to be a rant !

[jesbroken]

I agree, James, with your opinion. The problem that I see from my viewpoint is that when a considerable investment is made in a coin(key word considerable varying for many collectors) and many of us do not any where near regularly get to enjoy the benefit of holding a coin before buying, which then makes buying a certified coin quite a bit safer. In a perfect world, collectors would only buy from dealers they knew and encapsulation for safety's sake would be unnecessary.

You also have the protection provided for your coins by encapsulation. I have read several posts over the year where forum members have dropped a coin and damaged it--can you imagine dropping the coin you speak of. I have dropped several coins over the period of 40+ years of collecting/selling and always on carpet with no apparent damage. But what if.

I consider all who regularly attend coins shows and successfull B&M shops extremely fortunate. I went to the Baltimore show this year and met many people that I deal with which I truly enjoyed, yet the trip cost me in excess of $200. While not much to some--a lot to me.

Not meant to be a rant--JMHO

Jim

[RWB]

Authentication and identification of altered coins was, and remains the most useful aspect of the "grading services." These are specialized services that require expertise beyond that of most collectors and dealers.

 

Assigning a description of preservation (or “grade”) is a very distant purpose and is something that nearly any collector with average intelligence can do themselves. Putting pocket change in plastic holders with paper labels and charging $10 or $20 borders on pornographic.

 

Numeric coin set competition, etc. is nothing but marketing intended to separate collectors from as much money as possible while delivering nothing of value.

 

[leeg]

Good points made by all so far!! (thumbs u

 

I collect coins in and out of holders.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mommam17]

That`s a nice thought. The coins that I really enjoy viewing encased in plastic, are even nicer than what I`m looking at. Thank You, James.

[James_OldeTowne]

Great point! And of course, that leads into the #1 reason given for low crossover rate success when a coin is sent in still encapsulated. It (might) simply look "better" when cracked out and submitted .

[coinman1794]

I prefer my coins raw, hands down. However, almost none of my coins are raw. The preservational and monetarily sound aspects of having coins certified are paramount in today's marketplace, and I don't see this changing. This is why I really like the NGC edgeview holder (despite all its flaws). It's sort of the best of both worlds, raw and slabbed. Rather than burry the coin in plastic, such that you can see nothing but two flat, disconnected sides, as has been the m.o. of all the major grading services until now, the edgeview allows you to see the coin in its fully 3-D, cylindrical existence. And, as if supported by 4 pedestals, the coin is propped up and showcased for elegant (sometimes) display and easy viewing. It's the next best thing to raw. I've had some of my older slabs re-holdered, and it's hard to believe how much more enjoyable my coins are now that I can actually see, again, that they really are coins!

[DC Dawg]

Assigning a description of preservation (or “grade”) is a very distant purpose and is something that nearly any collector with average intelligence can do themselves. Putting pocket change in plastic holders with paper labels and charging $10 or $20 borders on pornographic.

Gee Roger... tell us what you really think!!

 

Numeric coin set competition, etc. is nothing but marketing intended to separate collectors from as much money as possible while delivering nothing of value.

Hey! I resemble that remark... especially after buying a 1976-S Silver Kennedy Half graded MS68!

 

Sorry Roger, I disagree with you on this statement. Value is a matter of perception, what some people will pay for an item based on many factors. What the registry set competition delivers is a different way of feeding off the competitive spirit giving people who participate pleasure. People find value in competition, which is why sports are so popular. In this case, a value is assigned to the coin for the competition thus making the coin's value on the market higher for those who will sell their coins.

 

You may not like registry set competition, but there are others who do and the costs are worth it to them. And the dyed-in-the-wool capitalist in me says that if there is a market for registry set competition, why not allow these TPGs to make a living from the activity?

 

Scott

 

[RareSov]

Well I agree they look better. UHR arrived today and it had popped out of the capsule, so I had to airblast it with my camera airbrush and put it back in the capsule.

 

Coins do look much nicer out of plastic. Its only the huge risk factor that keeps them IN plastic. I agree the edgeview makes coins feel more like a raw coin.. Its a shame the plastic is not completely transparent to give that raw look.. maybe in another 100 years

[Old Pueblo]

Most of my coins are raw and in dansco books. One of my favorite ways to view coins is turning dansco pages filled with (somewhat) high grade - lusterous coins.

Seem to me there is loss of personality when a coin gets committed to prison.

I agree with marketplace implication however.

Also, I am enjoying building a registry, the photo process, writing scripts about the coins and viewing other registry (some envoke a bit of envy)

[LincolnLover-migration]

...actually, I don't understand the benefits of certified coins. There are a couple of things that I have garnered from reading posts on this forum which lead me to question whether we all do understand the benefits of certified coins.

 

1) I have read several posts where members cracked a coin out of its holder, submitted it to a different grading service and got a different grade on the coin. How can we all understand the benefits of certifying when it is obviously subjective?

 

2) I would love to do a search on this board to collect the number of posts that have irate members complaining about a "body bag", conservative grader or a lower grade than the submitter was expecting. How can we all "understand the benefits of certifying" when so many people seem to have problems with it?

 

I do not mean to ruffle any feathers in the debate between slabbers or raw coin people, but at a certain point you need to stand up and be counted. I prefer to see a coin and to make my own decision,as James mentioned in his original post, not to worry about a grade assigned, or the particular looks of new slab versus an old one, or any of the other inane problems that come along with a third party certification.

 

I will happily eat my hat if I ever buy a certified coin... and you all will be the first to know about it.

 

 

[RWB]

I think you might have hit the correct word: "inane."

[Old Pueblo]

Eye appeal rules!

[coinman1794]

...actually, I don't understand the benefits of certified coins. There are a couple of things that I have garnered from reading posts on this forum which lead me to question whether we all do understand the benefits of certified coins.

 

1) I have read several posts where members cracked a coin out of its holder, submitted it to a different grading service and got a different grade on the coin. How can we all understand the benefits of certifying when it is obviously subjective?

 

2) I would love to do a search on this board to collect the number of posts that have irate members complaining about a "body bag", conservative grader or a lower grade than the submitter was expecting. How can we all "understand the benefits of certifying" when so many people seem to have problems with it?

 

I do not mean to ruffle any feathers in the debate between slabbers or raw coin people, but at a certain point you need to stand up and be counted. I prefer to see a coin and to make my own decision,as James mentioned in his original post, not to worry about a grade assigned, or the particular looks of new slab versus an old one, or any of the other inane problems that come along with a third party certification.

 

I will happily eat my hat if I ever buy a certified coin... and you all will be the first to know about it.

 

 

Certification opinions are just that; subjectivity and inconsistency cannot be seperated from the process of assigning grades. However, this isnt readily obvious to most of the people who participate in the coin marketplace (most people get mad at you if you bring it up), and coins are hard to sell raw in this climate. If you have a considerable investent in coins, they almost have to be certified to insure a fair return should it need to be liquidated for whatever reason.

 

[RareSov]

The biggest value of certification is

 

a) Authentication. The experts can pick fakes and altered mintmarks that we wouldn't.

 

b) Encapsulation. To me this is the biggest thing. Our coins are precious, the latest high tech materials are available.. put the coin in there to keep it safe.

 

The grade is always going to be subjective, however some coins are dead set a certain grade. So it is not every coin that is variable. Actually a small % I would think.

 

The problem is that standards can and DO change over time, new graders are employed while old ones leave, and of course, the graders are after all, HUMAN

[michael]

The biggest value of certification is

 

 

increased monetary value of the item/saleability/marketability/registry set demand in the case of pcgs to the submitter of mostly post 1950 coins; moreso post 1964 coins and even moreso post 1990 coins

[michael]

and with 70 being the operative word here for post 1985 coins

[James_OldeTowne]

...actually, I don't understand the benefits of certified coins. ...

I do not mean to ruffle any feathers in the debate between slabbers or raw coin people, but at a certain point you need to stand up and be counted. I prefer to see a coin and to make my own decision,as James mentioned in his original post, not to worry about a grade assigned, or the particular looks of new slab versus an old one, or any of the other inane problems that come along with a third party certification.

The benefits of certification are:

 

(1) authentication - the services virtually never get this wrong, and this is by far the biggest benefit of certification

 

(2) attribution - you have to check their attibutions, but it is usually accurate, and at worst, gets you started

 

(3) liquidity - definitely an arguable point, and one that matters not at all to many folks, myself included. I personally couldn't care less if my coins are "easier to sell" since I usually buy to hold, and have outstanding success selling raw coins. But a casual collector can enjoy some financial protection.

 

(4) protection - slabs protect coins very well. That being said, 2x2 flips do virtually as well, so the "protection" benefit tends to be much overblown, but slabs are certainly right up there in this area. Unfortunately, this same slab "protection" is irreversible and has a huge disadvantage, which is the theme of my opening post.

 

(5) grade opinion - it is simply another opinion, for better or for worse. It's is best to form your own opinion first, then look at the certified grade and see if it sways your opinion.

[LincolnLover-migration]

I will concede that authentication is a definite benefit of certification.