1941-S Jefferson nickels

[Hoot]

At the beginning of November of last year, I went to the Utah State Coin Show in Salt Lake. There, I met a most interesting fellow who goes by GDJMSP on these boards. He's a greatly knowledgable person who has a true love for numismatics. Anyhow, one of the coins I picked up there was a very nice uncirculated example of a 1941-S large mint mark variety Jefferson nickel. This was a GREAT find and I must admit to cherrypicking it for less than 5 bucks. I told GDJMSP that I'd eventually get it graded and that it would likely grade MS64. Well, to make a long story short, I did and it did. Of course, I paid NGC the extra $7 for the variety attribution placed on the insert. Attached is a photo of the mint mark varieties of 1941-S nickels and here's a little blurb on them:

 

Nickels of 1941 are best defined by continuity. Their production represents still-fresh master dies that ultimately transferred distinct lines to working hubs and dies, excellent striking techniques, and practiced production. ... Many of these coins are found today in uncirculated condition. These coins were generally well struck and a fairly high proportion are found bearing full steps.

 

But the 1941 nickels of San Francisco brought to the fore the third distinct type in the fledging series. The 1941-S nickels bear two distinctly different mint marks. The most common of these mint marks is that of previous years. Production of coins bearing the diminutive S mint mark of 1938 - 1940 was augmented with coins from dies bearing a large S mint mark. The large S mint mark, used exclusively in years following the silver wartime nickels, is rarely found among 1941-S nickels, especially in mint state. Full step nickels of this type are not known in population reports of either PCGS or NGC. Collection of this third type has only recently gained significant notice but the type is now found (with four stars) in the Cherrypicker’s Guide of Fivaz and Stanton.

 

Hoot

[Hoot]

Here's a shot of the entire coin. Keep in mind that the scan (size and method) exaggerates flaws. It's really a nice example of this type.

 

Just for fun...

 

Hoot

[spy88]

Great pics, Mark and excellent reference! Have seen this variety @

http://www.varietynickels.com/oddities.html

 

Nice catch!

 

David

[Hoot]

Thanks for the link David. I'd only have to disagree about the price varietynickels lists ($50+ in BU with FS). I've only seen one of these sell in choice condition - in MS63 (not FS) slabbed by ANACS. It sold for $300 on eBay this last year. NGC currently lists 1 in 58, 1 in 63, 2 in 64, 1 in 65, and 1 in 66 - none with FS. I don't know what the ANACS populations are, and PCGS does not list the type. Fairly rare bear at this point in time.

 

Hoot

[spy88]

I also noticed the apparent price difference for a coin that I think should be considered rare in relation to its counterpart (small S) and the entire series. Especially when referred to with the FS listing, I am giving Jason the benefit of the doubt for the value listed may be a typo.

 

Of the over 43 Mill minted for the 43-S, do you have any idea as to the possible number of large S variety out there? Just curious.

 

David

[Hoot]

Don't know about that 43-S large mint mark.

 

As for the 41-S, the estimates I have heard have been from 1 to 10 percent. I have a tough time believing the 10% estimates, and even the 1%. Nagengast estimates that perhaps 10 dies bore the large S mint mark. I think that only time will tell what the approximate extant populations may be.

 

Hoot

[GDJMSP]

Howdy Hoot - yeah I remember that nickel. Primarily because of what you told me about it then that you just explained here. But now I got a question for ya.

 

You should also recall that at the time I did not agree with your estimation of the grade - appears I was wrong. At least as far as NGC is concerned. Now the question since I know only a little about grading Jeffs - the quality of the strike on the reverse was my primary reason for not agreeing with the 64. Are most of the '41-S Jeffs like that - and is that the reason for the 64 ?

[Hoot]

You should also recall that at the time I did not agree with your estimation of the grade - appears I was wrong. At least as far as NGC is concerned. Now the question since I know only a little about grading Jeffs - the quality of the strike on the reverse was my primary reason for not agreeing with the 64. Are most of the '41-S Jeffs like that - and is that the reason for the 64 ?

 

Yes! GDJMSP, and an excellent question it is. For grading Jeffs, strike deficiencies are taken in degrees when it comes to the current standards of grading. A weakly struck coin can have deficiencies in the detail of every device and that includes most prominantly the hair and facial features of Jefferson and the features of Monticello. Die wear can also produce rough fields and deteriorated lettering (to the point of die deterioration doubling), which is common in the series. It would be almost impossible to provide a quantitative description of how the grades are discounted in weakly struck Jeffs, but the basic rule of thumb is about as follows: The coin can exhibit weakness to the point of rough fileds and deteriorated lettering, and the central portion of Jefferson's hair can lack about 2/3 of its normal detail, while Monticello can have no steps and can have rounded features on all edifices, including window paynes and doors. Such a coin with no abrasions or significant nicks can still garner an MS65 grade (like it or not). Some coins of this description can still have 5 or more steps! (I have one that fits the description to a T). Coins with more abrasions or nicks and greater or lesser detail will garner lesser grades. The coin I've shown above has greater detail than I describe, but has more noticable nicks, thus the MS64.

 

Most Jeffersons of MS65 and above will have good to above average detail, just not always. Coins of MS66 and MS67 usually have very good or excellent detail but may have a few nicks. These coins do not have to have full steps to warrant the grade. Remember, some coins in this series can have exquisite detail but lack full steps. These coins are considered also in terms of the number of abrasions/nicks, lustre, cleanness of fields (really part of the detail), color, planchet superiority/inferiority, and eye appeal. This is what makes the series a challenge to grade.

 

Hope this was informative.

 

Hoot

[spy88]

Oops! Speaking of typos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

43-S large mint mark

I meant the 41-S!

 

Thanks, Mark.

 

[GDJMSP]

 

Hope this was informative.

 

Hoot

 

Yup - that was informative enough. Guess that means I better keep the one I bought for my son's collection that has a full strike on both obverse & reverse with the coin being mark free except for only 1 small ding across the steps huh ?

[Hoot]

Yup - that was informative enough. Guess that means I better keep the one I bought for my son's collection that has a full strike on both obverse & reverse with the coin being mark free except for only 1 small ding across the steps huh ?

 

That'd be a keeper!

 

Hoot

[jtwax-migration]

I priced the Large-S variety the way I did simply from my own personal buying experiences. I have purchased 4 examples in 63 or better in the last 6 months and all were under $25. Which reminds me I have one left for sale I'd be willing to take offers on.

 

Regards,

 

[Hoot]

How about 25 bucks!

 

Hoot

[spy88]

I'll go $30 if its FS!

[RobertB]

31.50