Recently, TDN accused me of "going out of my way" to slam CAC, so kindly indulge

[Bruceswar]

The point he is making is that many bidders cannot tell a PQ 64 from a dog. These sticker now give the idea that any coin without one is now a dog. (Even though they have no clue which coins have been submitted or not) We have to remember the average collector of coins is totally clueless when it comes to grading. When I go to my local B&M I am lucky if 1 of every 10 people even know the difference between MS63 and MS65 for any given series, yet they all still collect coins.

[gmarguli]

The point he is making is that many bidders cannot tell a PQ 64 from a dog. These sticker now give the idea that any coin without one is now a dog. (Even though they have no clue which coins have been submitted or not) We have to remember the average collector of coins is totally clueless when it comes to grading. When I go to my local B&M I am lucky if 1 of every 10 people even know the difference between MS63 and MS65 for any given series, yet they all still collect coins.

 

Thank you!

[Tradedollarnut]

So you are saying that demand drops for any coin without a sticker but is exactly the same as it was for any coin with a sticker. Hmmmm.

 

Interesting mental gymnasitics you are going through here.

[Bruceswar]

So you are saying that demand drops for any coin without a sticker but is exactly the same as it was for any coin with a sticker. Hmmmm.

 

Interesting mental gymnasitics you are going through here.

 

Perception is half the battle...

[Tradedollarnut]

The only way that could possibly happen is if the people who decide to pass on non stickered coins do NOT bid on stickered coins. They'd have to essentially drop out of the marketplace.

 

Not gonna happen. If someone decides to pass on non stickered coins because they believe they are bad, then they are most certainly going to chase the stickered ones.

[gmarguli]

The only way that could possibly happen is if the people who decide to pass on non stickered coins do NOT bid on stickered coins. They'd have to essentially drop out of the marketplace.

 

Not gonna happen. If someone decides to pass on non stickered coins because they believe they are bad, then they are most certainly going to chase the stickered ones.

 

Wrong. They will bid/buy based on price which is how most sight-unseen buyers do it.

 

I'll pay $2,500 for an MS66 Saint. I'm the typical collector and clueless about quality. However, I see 10 in a Heritage auction and 8 have stickers. I'll bid my $2,500 on those stickered ones and never win. I won't bid on the 2 non-stickered ones as they must be dogs. Did my $2,500 bid increase the final price for the stickered ones? Nope. Did my lack of bid on the non-stickered one reduce the final price? Possibly.

 

The stickered ones were likely going to sell for strong prices as the floor buyers knew they were nice. The 2 others may have been hurt by the lack of perceived quality.

[Tradedollarnut]

Sooner or later they will impact the market. You cannot have increased demand for stickered coins without raising the price. Buyers adjust to the market.

[DC Dawg]

I don't blame you for not wanting to pay MS64 price for an MS63. But....what coin has only a spread of 20% over greysheet for MS63 to reach MS64 value?

Pardon me... I made a mistake (I did not have my notes with me). I was trying to buy a 1931-S cent graded MS-64RD with a sticker. At the time (2-3 months ago), the greysheet value was $350 but the dealer kept insisting the sticker made it worth $450-500. Greysheet on an MS65RD was over $600. I would have bought the coin at $350, maybe even considered $400 because I thought it was a very blazing red coin and worth greysheet bid. But I didn't like the dealer's attitude and I didn't want to pay that much over greysheet. I felt the dealer was using the $10 sticker to justify charging more. As much as it pained me, I walked away.

 

I'll find a nice red 1931-S red coin again, but I will be damed before I over pay because the coin has a $10 sticker!

 

Scott

 

[kryptonitecomics]

I don't blame you for not wanting to pay MS64 price for an MS63. But....what coin has only a spread of 20% over greysheet for MS63 to reach MS64 value?

Pardon me... I made a mistake (I did not have my notes with me). I was trying to buy a 1931-S cent graded MS-64RD with a sticker. At the time (2-3 months ago), the greysheet value was $350 but the dealer kept insisting the sticker made it worth $450-500. Greysheet on an MS65RD was over $600. I would have bought the coin at $350, maybe even considered $400 because I thought it was a very blazing red coin and worth greysheet bid. But I didn't like the dealer's attitude and I didn't want to pay that much over greysheet. I felt the dealer was using the $10 sticker to justify charging more. As much as it pained me, I walked away.

 

I'll find a nice red 1931-S red coin again, but I will be damed before I over pay because the coin has a $10 sticker!

 

Scott

 

 

I don't care one way or the other about CAC, do not actiively look for CAC sticked coins, and most likely would not pay a premium for a CAC stickered coin unless I personally like the eye appeal of the coin.......with that said I have paid premiums for NGC star holdered coins so it's just personal preference vs. any negative feelings about CAC. I am one of those rare breed of collectors that feels he is very profecient at grading....at least in all of the series I actively collect so I know if a coin is PQ or not according to my standards and that's all that maters. As was previously pointed out.....the average collector probably could make good use of CAC's expertise when purchasing coins.

 

In the above example you mentioned it was a nice blazing PQ coin but then talk about being willing to pay greysheet bid Sticker or no sticker wouldn't a PQ coin be worth considerably more than greysheet bid I would expect a run of the mill average coin to generally be worth bid but I would never expect to purchase PQ coins at anywhere near that level. If the coin was PQ, was it close to an upgrade? If the MS64 sheet price was $350 and MS65 sheet price was $600 then $450 to $500 doesn't sound that at of line as far as a dealer ask price whether the coin had the sticker or not. Sure it may not have been worth that much to you but I have never purchased a nice coin from a knowledgable dealer for anything near bid but that's just me (thumbs u

[physics-fan3.14]

Scott, that sounds like a case of shooting off your nose to spite your face.

[Catbert]

I don't care one way or the other about CAC, do not actiively look for CAC sticked coins, and most likely would not pay a premium for a CAC stickered coin unless I personally like the eye appeal of the coin.......with that said I have paid premiums for NGC star holdered coins so it's just personal preference vs. any negative feelings about CAC. I am one of those rare breed of collectors that feels he is very profecient at grading....at least in all of the series I actively collect so I know if a coin is PQ or not according to my standards and that's all that maters.

 

Shane - are you equating a CAC sticker to the NGC star designation? I thought that they are different beasts, unless you are saying that the gold CAC sticker is equivalent?

[Houston Investor]

Market Value for a 1931-S Cent in MS 64 Red is $500 (Coin World); Greysheet is wholesale. I don't believe $450 - $500 was an unfair asking price as my lowest price on this piece would be $450, a 10% discount off market. Grey Sheet is for wholesale Dealer to Dealer transactions - I use it for buying, not selling. When people come up to my table at a show and quote me greysheet, I usually just advise them perhaps they should open up a coin shop or send them (CDN) a check. Should a dealer quote a premium bc a coin has a CAC sticker? Thats up to him. To me its more of a cost issue. My computer makes the decision for me in most instances - Discounted Market Retail vs minimum markup over cost. If the CAC coin cost me more then it probably won't be discounted vs market retail (CW) simply bc of cost.

 

Everyone has their opinions about CAC but if you want to know what they are bringing on Ebay or Teletrade that can be easily researched. I recently blew out an 1881 PCGS PF 64 3CN on Ebay with the green CAC sticker as part of some inventory restructuring. CDN Bid was $335. I started the auction at $300 and it went for $335. I did a little bit better with an NGC 64 1881-O Dollar with CAC green sticker. It realized $193.16 vs CDN Bid of $175. Neither coin realized anything spectacular and I lost money on both. However, this was better than some friends of mine who run a shop would have paid as their quote was bluesheet. My investment money is now going primarily to Gold and Silver related mutual funds. At least there I won't get whipsawed by huge commissions or people who won't pay retail Oh, I am still buying coins, but at my price.