Putting a Grade on a Heavily Toned Coin…How’s it Done?

[WoodenJefferson]

How do professional graders look past the heavy toning on some coins to determine the actual grade of a coin?

 

Example, and this particular coin is not that heavily toned, but this 1958-P is in a NGC holder and attained a grade of MS-66! It’s beyond me how this is accomplished accurately, your thoughts.

 

[RareSov]

Halogen, its a godsend for everything else, why not toning

[RareSov]

Magnification can't hurt ?

 

Scanner ?

[Bruceswar]

Sorry some may like this toning, but I think overall many would call it blah! That sort of splotchy toning is so ugly to me. As to how they could come up with 66 for the grade, even with heavy toning luster, and other aspects of the coin can still be used. As for me, pass on this coin.

[RareSov]

Agree on that..

[BillJones]

I would question the MS-66 grade given the three sharp scratches that are above Washington's curl plust the marks on his face. (Check out the crease on his cheek.) In my view, you should have to hunt for marks, and those three are obvious and would obvious even if the coin was not toned.

[MarkFeld]

Sorry some may like this toning, but I think overall many would call it blah! That sort of splotchy toning is so ugly to me. As to how they could come up with 66 for the grade, even with heavy toning luster, and other aspects of the coin can still be used. As for me, pass on this coin.

I like that color, though I would like it more if it were smoother.

[MarkFeld]

How do professional graders look past the heavy toning on some coins to determine the actual grade of a coin?

 

Example, and this particular coin is not that heavily toned, but this 1958-P is in a NGC holder and attained a grade of MS-66! It’s beyond me how this is accomplished accurately, your thoughts.

 

Marks/flaws on such coins will be harder to see, but will hopefully still be detected and considered when assigning the grade.That said, I have seen many toned coins that when dipped, show marks which were not apparent prior to the dipping. So, it's grading based on what you see, though admittedly you can't see the full extent of the flaws in some cases.

[TomB]

Deeply toned coins are not all that tough to grade once you have seen a number of them and become familiar with the characteristics of such pieces. Rotation under a light is still a terrific thing to do to examine the surfaces. However, once the luster begins to be cut down then the grade starts to fall quickly.

[jesbroken]

Sorry, but from my eyes this photo shows a washington that is weakly struck and with reeded edge marks across the hair and while this year washington is readily availble in both choice and gem state this coin is neither and is nondeserving of the MS66 grade. The toning is not a positive aesthetic feature in my opinion but worked in getting this coin a much higher grade. I personally feel that while making some coins very attractive toning that prevents grading should get a genuine only. JMO.

Jim

[MarkFeld]

Sorry, but from my eyes this photo shows a washington that is weakly struck and with reeded edge marks across the hair and while this year washington is readily availble in both choice and gem state this coin is neither and is nondeserving of the MS66 grade. The toning is not a positive aesthetic feature in my opinion but worked in getting this coin a much higher grade. I personally feel that while making some coins very attractive toning that prevents grading should get a genuine only. JMO.

Jim

Based on the images, I don't think it deserves a 66 either, but wouldn't have a problem with a 65 - remember these are BIG images compared to the actual size of the coin/flaws.. Also, the strike isn't that bad and is often weak on these coins .Different people feel differently about the toning - I'd much prefer that to a color-free example.

[BillJones]

Grading a heavily toned coin all comes down to mint luster and mint surface. If the coin has become dull as a result of the toning, it does not matter how few marks it has. It’s low end Mint State at best, and perhaps even an AU or a no grade from environmental damage. This type of check only be done in person under strong light to look for the flow lines.

 

As for marks, toning makes it harder to spot them, but they can be noted with careful examination.

 

[coinman1794]

A toned coin will often grade much differently than the same coin if it were brilliant, lower or higher, depending on the type of toning. A toned coin should be addressed through the same lighting any other coin is graded under, and carefully examined for what can be seen. It will take longer to look it over though, because the marks wont always jump right out at you. Marks that are hidden beneath and not visible will not affect the grade, simply because we dont know they are there! Many toned coins are graded too loosely, in my opinion.

[James_OldeTowne]

How do professional graders look past the heavy toning on some coins to determine the actual grade of a coin?

I have frequently wondered the same thing. The best explanation I can come up with is:

 

Fine hairlines and minor marks can mean a cumulative detraction of as much as two points. Heavy toning completely masks fine hairlines and significantly attenuates minor marks. Therefore, up to a two point detraction is removed from the equation, resulting in higher grade consideration.

 

I could easily be completely wrong about this, though, and for that matter, I do not personally agree with this philosophy. It's just what I believe happens.

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

You guys bring out some interesting points.

 

I once held a Franklin Half Dollar that was black, I mean black. Had it not been for the sheen of the tone (not powdery or dry looking) it would have been butt ugly, but it was unique in its own way and had a MS-65 on it from one of the top tier grading companies.

 

I had to compel myself to think...OK, the grader got to look at this coin raw, got to look at the edges and I guess could "look" onto the surface of the coin.

 

From then on, I looked at graded coins in plastic differently.

 

Thanks for your responses.

[physics-fan3.14]

Keep in mind that a coin will also sometimes recieve a bump if the eye appeal of the toning is good enough. You'll see a technically 65 coin in a 66 holder because the eye appeal is good enough - which is what I think happened to your coin. This is probably a lower end 66, but TPG's market grade, or as michael likes to say, they value a coin rather than grade it. This coin would receive a premium price over a normal 65 coin for the toning (argue that all you want - it will still get a premium), and so it received a bump in grade.

[kryptonitecomics]

Deeply toned coins are not all that tough to grade once you have seen a number of them and become familiar with the characteristics of such pieces. Rotation under a light is still a terrific thing to do to examine the surfaces. However, once the luster begins to be cut down then the grade starts to fall quickly.

 

[EZ_E]

[font:Comic Sans MS]I think that toned coins in a high grade holder (especially with a large premium attached to it) should be approached with extreme caution. This is because it is quite possible that the toning has done irreparable damage to the surface of the coin. Any dark toning spot should be flagged with a strong caveat. From experience, I've had high grade toned coins professionally conserved and, as I suspected, the coin's surface was damaged beneath the toning which lowered the coin's value considerably. I don't think that any darkly toned coin should ever receive a grade above 67, and that's pushing it. These lofty grades are obtained solely through the pricing structure of market grading.[/font]

[Bruceswar]

Sorry some may like this toning, but I think overall many would call it blah! That sort of splotchy toning is so ugly to me. As to how they could come up with 66 for the grade, even with heavy toning luster, and other aspects of the coin can still be used. As for me, pass on this coin.

I like that color, though I would like it more if it were smoother.

 

If it was smoother it would be a ton better.

[leeg]

Personally, I prefer darkly toned coins on some issues. There is a fine art to seeing beneath the toning to see the true surfaces of the coin. You have to view coins in hand to get proficient at it.

 

 

An example (sold it):