Advie for a semi-beginner!!!

[Joe S.-migration]

Well...it seams like everything I come up with gets shot down so I need some help.

 

Can I get some advice for someone who is just getting started (I have quite a few mint and proof sets, some Morgan dollars, Peace dollars, nickels, pennies and a few prestige sets). Other than looking for deals when I can find them, what would you say are the 5 most important steps in acquiring a "healthy" collection? Tips, hints, etc...

 

 

Thanks for your help,

Joe S.

[physics-fan3.14]

First, get every book you can find and read it. This is the single most important step in building a great collection - learn.

 

Start with the basics - the Red Book, Coin Collecting for Dummies, the Coin Collectors Survival Manual. I read all these when first starting, and the information contained withing them formed an essential foundation for everything I've learned since.

 

Second, I cannot under-emphasize the importance of eye appeal. This is crucial! It doesn't matter what grade or what you choose to collect, but make sure you find the most appealing examples you can. A perfectly matched set, chosen by a critical eye, is a thing of beauty. Take a look at EZ_E's or TomB's type sets for superb examples of superior eye appeal.

 

Third, and most importantly, don't always try and get a bargain. Don't go for the quick deal. The "bargain" coin is probably priced the way it is for a reason. The seller probably knows what he has, and is hoping you'll buy it because its at a discount. Take your time, find the coin with the good eye appeal, and then try and get a good (fair) price for it. You might have to spend strong money for the choice coin - but other collectors will recognize it is choice, and will be willing to spend the strong money for it later.

[TomB]

You've already received some good advice and I will also state that virtually all of us who have remained within the hobby have been in your position at one point or another.

 

1) I would suggest that you read quite a bit and this should include magazines such as Coins or COINage as well as the boards and standard, general publications including the Red Book, or Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection published by PCGS. Also, get a copy of the The Official ANA Grading Standards. Obviously, reading through the grading standards would be dull, but you should have a copy for reference.

 

2) Don't be on the search for bargains. This is a ubiquitous beginner mistake and the coins that you believe are bargains will almost invariably be problem coins where you will lose in the long run. Look for quality at a fair price reflective of that quality.

 

3) Be patient!!! You don't need to spend all you money at one time or build your ultimate collection quickly. Most folks have their collections evolve with time and what you collect or own today might not be something you collect or own years from now.

 

4) Learn to spot problem coins. This will take time and finding a mentor will help quite a bit.

 

5) Have fun.

 

[Coindude]

Educate! I think it's already been stated well, but know about what you want to collect.

 

Collect something that's going to keep your interest. You don't want to be changing your collecting mode every 3 months, or for that matter every year. That's a sure fire way to lose money.

 

Do not buy other peoples problem coins! Yea, we all have coins in our collections (at least I'm assuming we do, I know I do) that aren't something we might be proud of, but if you don't learn from your mistakes you will make them again.

 

Something that I learned from when I was a newbie, don't buy coins that today are worth five bux and in ten years will be worth four bux! Sometimes when we are in a rush to fill that album, a coin will fit that costs 20 bux, but if you were to spend 100 you'd do much better and you'd be much more happy in the long run.

 

Use this place for what it is. You see many people asking for advice on a certain coin in the "Can you spare a grade" portion of the MB. If you ask, you'll get an answer, maybe not the one you want, but you will get an answer and you will get some really good advice.

[MarkFeld]

Here is my list of collector tips that I have posted on a few coin forums and which appears on my website:

 

 

 

Following, in no particular order of subject matter or importance, are my unsolicited comments and advice about coin collecting for collectors - please feel free to contact me at any time if you'd like to discuss any of these topics.

 

1. Buy/collect what YOU like. But keep in mind that when it comes time to sell, not everyone else will necessarily like what you did/do.

 

2. Examine as many coins as you can which have been certified/graded by the most highly respected grading companies. This can be done at coin shows and in auctions and is a great way to improve upon your grading skills.

 

3. The best way to improve your grading ability is to find someone who is highly qualified AND willing to spend time reviewing coins with you. That person can be a dealer or collector, but he needs to be more than just a friend - he needs to be a teacher. Many individuals are "qualified" OR "willing to spend the time", but few are BOTH.

 

4. Don't keep buying coins without ever selling any of them - learn what it's like to try to sell, too. Once in a while you should offer one or two of your coins back to the dealers you acquired them from. See how they deal with that type of situation and whether they want to re-acquire those "gems" they sold to you.

 

5. Don't be afraid or embarrassed to ask lots of questions. You and just about everyone else can learn a great deal that way.

 

6. Be aware of privacy and security concerns. It might not be fun to do so, but it's extremely important.

 

7. It's always good to get a second opinion. Doing so doesn't make you less knowledgeable, worthy or confident - it simply makes good sense.

 

8. Don't try to get bargains at the expense of quality and desirability for the coins you're buying, or you'll likely end up with sub-par coins which aren't bargains, anyway.

 

9. Generally, I advise against "investing" in coins. Even if you are very well informed, based upon buy/sell spreads and other factors, the odds are against your success. That said, I understand that many collectors end up spending significant sums of money on their collections and can't/shouldn't ignore the financial implications.

 

10. If you are going to "invest", I'd suggest diversification - not putting too much of your money into one coin or one coin type. I'd also recommend staying away from especially esoteric and/or illiquid and/or currently "hot" items.

 

11. While it is not a pleasant mindset to engage in, think about and plan for how your coins should be disposed of if/when something happens to you. Make your spouse and/or family and/or friends and/or an attorney aware of your wishes. If you have a particular dealer or coin/auction company that should be contacted, have that information recorded, along with costs, sources, purchase dates, etc., of your coins.

 

12. Eye-appeal is hard to ignore, but technical quality shouldn't be over-looked/compromised.

 

13. If you participate in auctions, whether over the Internet or in person, set your price/bidding limits in advance and stick to them. Auction fever hits many bidders, and almost always to their detriment.

 

14. Find time for other activities that don't have anything to do with coin collecting. Don't make coins your whole life - life is too short for that.

 

15. If you are going to stretch to buy a coin, do it for a coin which is truly special and/or virtually irreplaceable, not on an ordinary one. There are far more of the latter than of the former, and there will almost always be other opportunities.

 

16. Don't talk yourself into buying a coin. If something about it bothers you now, there is an excellent chance it will bother you as much or more later.

 

17. Don't be lulled or suckered into a false/unrealistic sense of security by the strength of many areas of the market that we have experienced for several years now. There are good markets, and, while some current participants might not have experienced them yet, there are bad markets too - I promise.

 

18. Do not buy rare coins on a sight-unseen basis, regardless of the seller or the images.

 

19. Enjoy our hobby.

 

20. I repeat, enjoy our hobby.

 

 

 

[Coindude]

:golfclap:Well done Mark, that pretty much sums it up. I especially liked your comment about trying to sell back to those who you purchased from. All sorts of implications there, plenty of room to read between the lines.

[brwnprkns]

Thank You Mark

Very good stuff

I agree with trying to sell back to a dealer one of their so-called gems. If they won't buy back I would question their integrity.

[Coindude]

I agree with trying to sell back to a dealer one of their so-called gems. If they won't buy back I would question their integrity.

Didn't that recently happen to you Matt? I would call that him a very well known coin kinda guy!

[brwnprkns]

Yes Sam,

Not sure if I should make that public.

What do you think ?

[James_OldeTowne]

My #1 tip is always: Figure out what you like before you begin buying coins in earnest. This may entail attending a few coin shows and a few auctions, but it's essential to figure out what it is you enjoy about coins before making major commitments.

[ant]

Yes Sam,

Not sure if I should make that public.

What do you think ?

 

no names are needed it would be nice to know what happened and why you think it happened.

[brwnprkns]

PM Sent Ant

[Coindude]

PM Sent Ant

I think that's the best way to handle that Matt. If someone really wants to know, they can ask. I know what it was and it kinda torques me to tell you the truth.

[brwnprkns]

I agree

[EZ_E]

Howdy, Joe. As mentioned, collect what you like and keep it fun. Collecting mint sets is a fun endeavor like you're doing with little down side. They are cheap enough that even in a down market, you're not likely to loose your behind.

 

I especially prefer being able to display such sets in an Eagle Album. Also, if you recall a recent thread, the US Mint did not make 1982 or 1983 sets but there are both US Mint Souvenir Sets and privately produced sets which may serve to fill these two years.

 

Eagle Album for US Mint Sets

 

Now you can keep your modern (1982-2000) mint sets, or flat-pack proof sets in an attractive albums without removing them from the plylofilm packaging! NOTE - Be sure to save the outer envelopes in a safe place just in case you want to re-package the sets for sale at some point in the future. Complete with inventory sheet, for front inside album cover. Simply hand write or word process to detail which sets are included in the openings of the album pages.

 

 

Third, and most importantly, don't always try and get a bargain.

 

This point came to my mind before I read a single comment and it just so happens to be the common suggestion among the other posters. This point applies to whatever area one may decide to collect. Of course, there are exceptions to this rule and good bargains do pop up from time to time but, for example, if you think that you can purchase quality coins by bargain hunting from full page advertisers any of the numismatic publications, you are sorely mistaken.

 

There is always a market for quality coins. They will sell much more quickly than the dregs in the market and seldom need to be advertised by the large dealers. Most likely, such coins when acquired by a dealer are either quickly flipped to another dealer or are placed in the hands of loyal clients with want lists.

 

Most of my quality type coins were offered to me by knowledgeable collectors from their personal collections or else I was the first to respond to a reputable dealer's e-newsletter. And very few of my truly nice coins were purchased at sheet value. Truly exceptional coins will always demand a premium but such coins will always be in demand.

 

That is why it is so important to experience the selling end of the hobby occasionally. It is a system of checks and balances and is a gauge used to show the quality of previous purchases. If any coin you are attempting to sell creates little interest or brings low offers then that shows that it's time to up your game and work on acquiring quality pieces.

 

It does not matter if they are world coins or US coins, quality will create interest and bring stronger prices. By not settling for "bargain" coins, truly nice collections can be assembled and, if and when it comes time to sell, strong prices will be realized which can be used to venture in a new collecting endeavor or for whatever.

 

Take a look at EZ_E's or TomB's type sets for superb examples of superior eye appeal.

 

Why, thank you very much, Jason. Bill Jones' set should rank up there among the best, as well. (thumbs u

 

This is the perfect example of why one should always look for the right example and not settle. Not only does it create interest among one's peers but it provides quiet satisfaction in one's own, personal accomplishments. It stretches beyond the monetary.

 

If you would look at my type set (click on banner below) you will notice that some of my early types coins range from Poor 1 like my Chain Cent or AG3 like my 1796 dime up to gem cameo 19th century proof coins. The common theme among the grade ranges is that each coin is original with nice eye-appeal. I would have no problem selling these coins if I ever decided to. Chances are that I would make a nice profit off of most of them, too.

 

There is an exception in my collection. My 1863 NGC PR64 half dime is a dreg even though it has a very low mintage and is a Civil War date. I purchased it from Teletrade and took a chance since the pics weren't the best. It only has so-so eye-appeal and is more like a PR63. It has its own appeal but if I were to ever sell that coin, it would be at a loss.

 

One example where I did score on a bargain price was with my Chain Cent. It was for sale in the Feb 2008 Stacks auction. It was in a PCI PR1 holder. PCI is not well known for their credibility nor do they have much respect in the market place. From what I could determine from the auction photos, I could not see any flaws that would prevent it from being graded by NGC or PCGS. I took a chance and got an especially historic coin at a bargain price. It turned out that not only was it a quality coin for the grade but it was the AMERI S-1 variety, the very first official Federal coin minted by the United States. I later had it graded by PCGS. It graded PR1 and was not body bagged. So, my $1800 purchase could easily be sold for $3K or more because of the historicity and scarcity of this coin. But that is by far the exception to the rule.

 

So, to sum things up:

 

1) Avoid most "bargain" priced coins.

 

2) Be willing to pay a premium for quality coins.

 

3) Deal with reputable dealers and collectors.

 

4) Experience the selling side of the coin game in order to be a well-rounded collector.

 

5) Learn how to grade and spot problem coins. Consider enrolling in an ANA coin grading seminar.

 

6) Secure your coins. A safe deposit box is a good option. Just be aware that California has confiscated (illegally) many box's contents to help their fledgling economy. So, by accessing your box periodically, it will show that it has not been abandoned even though the fees are up to date.

 

One draw back to being a hoarder instead of a collector is the mass quantity and weight that be quickly accumulated. This not only makes security a major issue but it can make moving an extreme chore!

 

This is one of the major reasons that I have been trimming my collection over the past couple of years. I prefer a much more manageable collection with quality coins vs. quantity.

 

 

7) Also, be aware of the fact that the Coin Dealer Newsletter greatly favors the dealer. You must be in tune with the market both when buying and selling. Just because the CDN says that coin X is worth so much $ does not set the price in stone. Remember, truly exceptional coins demand a premium so don't be afraid to pony up. Conversely, if you go to sell, don't let a buyer con you into a purchase price by quoting the CDN's price.

 

Coin World has a monthly price catalog. Often times their prices are insane and aren't even close to being realistic. Their early copper prices are extremely low. No quality copper piece could ever be purchased at their listed price. And, some of their prices are ridiculously high, more that double the actual worth of the coin.

 

It seems to me that all price publications are in the favor of the dealer. They can quote an absurdly low price when they buy but a ridiculously high price when it comes time to sell. Caveat emptor!

 

8) And one last thing. Avoid hype. It is always best to purchase low and to sell high. Hype is the exact opposite of this.

 

Often times an item goes through the spotlight and everyone wants it. That is not the time to buy. Be patient. It is best to purchase items when they are out of the spotlight. That is when "bargains" can truly be found.

 

Below is from Legends recent Market Report and their perception of what is hot right now and what is not. So, better deals can be found in the series that are currently weak in the market place.

 

Good luck!

 

[bgraphics-migration]

I'm farely new as well, and all the advise you got I'm also taking into concideration.

 

I read in the red book that sleeper coins are good to look for. some examples are coins like the 1999 p proof susan b anthony. only 75,000 minted. you can get them for around $15 on ebay. give it another 50 years and this coin will be something. I have 26 of them so that means there is only 74,974 left.

 

Try the presidential dollar set too. this will be way up there also. I have the unc, satin, and proof sets started. note get you a no edge letter to top the set off.

 

state quarter unc, and proof sets

 

2001 s sacagawea is at $90 book value minted at 3.1 million, the 2004 s is $18 and has a mintage of 2.9 million 2007 s is $15 and minted at 2 million. two more sleepers.

 

Be sure you have the 1996 west point dime,

 

another sleeper is the 2007 s dime you can get those for $2 minted at 677,996

the 1995 s was minted at 679,985 at its value is $20.

 

Alway look for the sleepers! you might not get a fast return but the reward will be great come retirement. Or for your kids or grand kids. Back to the 1999 p proof susan b anthony. not saying it will get to that price but 1893 s morgan was minted at 77,000 it values at $500,000 now.

[TomB]

One thing to keep in mind regarding "sleepers" is that many of these coins are sleepers because there is no demand. The interaction of supply and demand typically plays a great role in determining the value of a coin, which means that segments of the hobby with little demand may be viewed as undervalued or as sleepers when compared to other segments or individual coins. However, there is no guarantee that there will ever be enough demand to drive prices higher any appreciable level.

 

A second thing to keep in mind is that original mintage is not the same thing as survivorship. This comes into play acutely when comparing the mintage of the 1999 SBA proof (75,000) with the 1893-S Morgan (77,000). Although the Morgan is by no means rare in terms of total original mintage or survivorship, enough coins have been damaged or lost over the years that the current demand has pushed prices very high. It is unlikely that more than a tiny fraction of the 1999 SBA proof will be lost or damaged, which means that demand alone will have to push the price level higher. This may be a great coin for promoting, but it also is likely to never be rare.

[EZ_E]

Demand and survivability is the key. I've always been a big advocate of the 1994 and 1997 satin finish Jefferson nickels and the 1998 satin finish Kennedy half (the 1997 nickel has an unheard of mintage of 25,000). Yet, they have not moved at all in the past 7 years.

 

The 2002 uncirculated SLC $5 gold commem has a mintage of just a tad over 10K, same as the Hawaiian, Hudson and Spanish Trail commemorative half dollars, yet its value is just a fraction of them.

[BillJones]

Demand and survivability is the key. I've always been a big advocate of the 1994 and 1997 satin finish Jefferson nickels and the 1998 satin finish Kennedy half (the 1997 nickel has an unheard of mintage of 25,000). Yet, they have not moved at all in the past 7 years.

 

The 2002 uncirculated SLC $5 gold commem has a mintage of just a tad over 10K, same as the Hawaiian, Hudson and Spanish Trail commemorative half dollars, yet its value is just a fraction of them.

 

With all due respect, Victor, the trouble with your comparisons is that there are alternative coins for every one of the modern pieces that you cited. They are “scarce” only because they have different finishes from other coins with the same date and mint marks that are much more common and less expensive.

 

For example there are business strike coins for the 1994 and 1997 nickels. There were also 879,792 Proof silver 1998-S JFK half dollars. And there was a mintage of 32,877 Proof Salt Lake City Olympics $5 gold coins. And to be frank about it, I MUCH prefer the Proof coins as a collector to the Uncirculated coins.

 

In contrast, the mintage of 10 thousand for the Hawaiian, Hudson, and Spanish Trail half dollars is all there is. The collector has no alternatives. Addition a small number of the coins, most especially the Hawaiian show signs of wear, and some coins have been whizzed or otherwise ruined for collectors. In contrast few of the modern issues have be ruined in this way.

 

[EZ_E]

You make valid points, Bill. But if a slot were ever made for them in collector's albums then price and demand would be through the roof! That's why the 3-legged buffalo and 1922 plain cent are worth so much. I don't care to have either.

[bgraphics-migration]

 

I do agree that there isn't a demand for them now but years to come they might be the coins that most of us now are struggling to catch up on in the sets. And that is the ones that have the low mintage. Though there are ones that have high mintage such as the 1983 p and d washington quarters or even the 1986 d. No one ever seen these coin at the time of release to be $21, $10, or $25 now. They where all put into the public and no one hoarded them up and now you just can't find them in a high grade. That would also be a good one to grab up. I have been collecting sets. Thats where all of my attention has gone. some times i just go out and buy a jars of wheaties just to see what I find. I know buying up alot of 1999 sba proofs was risky but who knows, what if right? That is the fun part in being a coin collector. Always looking for the monster and hoping you find it. So have fun, just don't off the old lady doing it when the bills are due.

 

One thing to keep in mind regarding "sleepers" is that many of these coins are sleepers because there is no demand. The interaction of supply and demand typically plays a great role in determining the value of a coin, which means that segments of the hobby with little demand may be viewed as undervalued or as sleepers when compared to other segments or individual coins. However, there is no guarantee that there will ever be enough demand to drive prices higher any appreciable level.

[Mark T]

 

2) Don't be on the search for bargains. This is a ubiquitous beginner mistake and the coins that you believe are bargains will almost invariably be problem coins where you will lose in the long run. Look for quality at a fair price reflective of that quality.

 

 

I think a newbie needs to purchase some bargain dogs so they can appreciate a fantastic looking coin

[WoodenJefferson]

 

At this point in time, you are a star collector, that means it is an assortment of coins clustered into groups with no real sense of cohesiveness. You are going to have to take a look at your collection to see what direction you will need to take in order to get to that central focal point. From the center you can look outward trying to imagine a consolidation and direction instead of looking at all the points, and attempting to figure things out from afar.

 

Work on what information has been given you, pick out the best that would seem to help you meet your goals. Be flexible, keep asking questions

 

Best of luck.

[EZ_E]

Excellent advice, Woody! (thumbs u

[TomB]

I like that, Woody. (thumbs u

[World Colonial]

None of the coins used as examples are remotely scarce. Any coins with 75,000 or more surviving examples is common. Any coins with 75,000 or more surviving examples is high grade is extremely common.

 

Even with a coin like the 1893-S, it is simply an expensive coin and only rare as a conditional rarity.

 

There are many other coins that are also thought of as rare or maybe only scarce but if they were, they would not be so easy to find and buy. By US coin standards, 19th century proofs with mintages of less than 1000 are scarce but most or almost all of them are not hard to find, though finding them with a particular eye appeal will be more difficult. I do not collect them but have occasionally checked on Heritage and have invariably found multiple specimens of supposedly scarce coins having been sold over short periods of time.

[Joe S.-migration]

Wow...so much information! Thank you all for all of your input.

 

I have tried to take all of your advice to heart. I am reading, talking, buying (with in my means), studing pictures (and coins when I can get my hands on them), cherry picking (I found one!) and recording what I find in my own journal. I am learning everyday!

 

My only true obstical now is deciding on what I want to collect!

 

I buy the sets that are most likely to yield hidden gems (to help with the financial burden) and have had some luck. I have found a few that are not going to finance any retirements, but they still have some value. My question regarding them is, what do I do with them? Their expected value is from $60.00 to $1,800.00.

 

Once again...

 

Thank you,

Joe S.

[World Colonial]

Its not clear to me whether the context of your question is from a financial or collectible standpoint. Since I do not collect any US coins and my answer to your question from a collectible standpoint is to collect what you want, I am going to provide a response using financial considerations.

 

At the current time, I would buy either few or no coins in the current market environment with the expected prospect of making money on them in the near future. (I am essentially buying zero coins now for this reason.) And if I owned them for primarily financial reasons, I would sell them.

 

My opinion is that most coins are going to lose value over the next few years because of the economy and external financial environment. There have been many threads on this topic in the recent past and you can search this board for them if you are interested.

 

It is possible to buy coins for less than the current market value but since you and most other collectors on this board collect US coins, I believe it is more difficult to do so than for the series that I or other collectors of world coins because there is far more competion. Or at least this is true for most US coins if you are trying to profit in a short period of time. And unless you are a long time knowledgeable collector or a specialist in a particular area, you will likely have no information advantage over the many others who are buying and collecting the same material as you are. This will likely leave you to rely on the general market cycle which in my opinion as I stated is negative at the current time.

 

Another consideration to me is that while I do happen to like US coins (though obviously less than what I collect), from a financial standpoint many of them are expensive to the average collector and especially so given their scarcity and availability.

 

That's one of the reasons I do not collect them. Most of the coins I own (at least the graded coins I have now), I could sell for more than I paid and for many of them, I could have sold them for more than my cost right after I bought them. This is almost never going to be true with US coins. Most of them must be held for longer periods of time (it varies) to have the market move in your favor to cover the difference between the buy and sell price. That's fine for most because they are not collecting primarily with the intent to profit. But its far from ideal for those for which financial considerations are more important.