Do coin business leaders take collectors for granted?

[RWB]

Per Scott’s idea – Why not a "New to Coin Collecting?" help table right at the entrance. Local club members could answer all those “frustratingly ignorant” questions newbys have, and that “real” coin dealers are tired of answering. They could give them straight answers (and let them down easy about Granddad's collection of 1968 cents).

[DC Dawg]

Per Scott’s idea – Why not a "New to Coin Collecting?" help table right at the entrance. Local club members could answer all those “frustratingly ignorant” questions newbys have, and that “real” coin dealers are tired of answering. They could give them straight answers (and let them down easy about Granddad's collection of 1968 cents).

I think we can do that! I will bring it up at the next MSNA meeting to see if we and our member clubs would be willing to staff that table.

 

Scott

[RWB]

It'll give club members something useful to do besides selling raffle tickets.

[EZ_E]

I can't abide by rude behavior, however, I'm sure that some dealers get tired of being presented with common material time and time again.

 

The one and only time that I had a table on the bourse was at a Hot Springs, AR show. I did practically nil retail business, just wholesale. I was cordial and talked to all who came along. I gave a few cool items to a couple of young teenaged kids with their dad and they kept coming back (never bought anything) and it did get kind of annoying after awhile.

 

Maybe some dealers simply get jaded after so many years in the field. Still, if they hate it that much then they should get out. John Paul Sarosi found out the hard way that I do not tolerate such rudeness.

[bartlesvilleok]

[i spent about ½ hour at the recent Baltimore show. As I was leaving I saw the perfect turn-off to coin collecting. A teen approached a dealer’s table with a folder of state quarters, and asked what they were worth. The dealer glanced at the cover and said “Junk, Nothin’” and turned away. The teen walked out, his hopes clearly deflated. Is this how “first contact” is handled in our hobby? ]

 

As a one time dealer who was on the other side of the case, it gets hard to answer some of these questions. Yes, calling the material "junk, Nothin" is too harsh, but at the same time telling him that he's really got something is wrong too.

 

My diplomatic response would be to tell him that the coins in the album were very common and not worth much of anything over face value. I could further explain that coins bring collector prices because they are scarce and in demand. State Quarters have certainly been in demand, but with mintages reaching the billion mark and an many millions saved, the supply is too large to give them very much collector value.

 

I like this response

 

 

These paragraphs represent two problems. Your experience at Baltimore shows that there are all types and it is difficult to know which type you meet. For as many ogres you meet I can show you a few nicer dealers who would answer nicely to the teen.

 

Good one here too Scott, While there some real jerks out there you can not (or should not) say that about everyone.

 

I also think that for the most part the dealers seem to be nicer or in a better mood when they are in there coin shops then at shows. I can see how they would be real stressed at shows trying to break even from the trip and all so I will normally cut the dealers at shows a break. however attitude is just one of my pet peves and there are many coin dealers I have just walked away from for being jerks.

[EZ_E]

The next time a dealer at a show is unreasonably rude, one should make a point and a show of writing the dealer's name in a notebook. Preferably, it would be best if the dealer asked what you're doing, if not asked then state that you are doing research for an upcoming article that will appear in Coin World and that each experience with each dealer will be covered in detail.

 

I'm sure that their consciences would twinge at that.

 

Thinking about it just now, I think that it would be a service to the numismatic community if Arch would have a dedicated column just for this topic like the Coins and Tangents sections.

 

Within it the section, a dealer's name will be in the title of each new thread with a poll that can be viewed without voting but will allow the pollster a number of options to choose giving a gamut of experiences with that dealer.

 

For instance.

 

Mark Feld

 

1) My experiences have been positive over all.

 

2) A very rude individual.

 

3) Great prices, quality coins.

 

4) Only dregs in inventory. Over priced Not recommended.

 

etc, etc

 

This will give the collector an edge in the market, I think.

[RGT]

For instance.

 

Mark Feld

 

1) My experiences have been positive over all.

 

2) A very rude individual.

 

3) Great prices, quality coins.

 

4) Only dregs in inventory. Over priced Not recommended.

[/i]

 

Can we vote on both #2 and #4 for Mark?

 

 

[DWLange]

A few ANA conventions have had chaperons posted at the bourse entrance to guide people around or simply point them in the right direction. Only a few visitors availed themselves of this service, most pushing straight past them to take their chances.

 

One unfortunate but unavoidable fact of major coin shows is that the dealers closest to the entrance typically trade in high-end material and will have little patience with questions about state quarters and gold-plated Anthony Dollars. Most first time visitors may not get far enough into the bourse to find the more patient dealers before getting discouraged.

[World Colonial]

The last coin show I attended was the 2007 June Long Beach Show. I recall a "budget" section for dealers with inventory mostly or exclusively less than $300. Since I only buy world coins and most dealers do not have anything I want to buy anyway, it doesn't really matter. But the fact remains that if this is an accurate reflection of the value of meterial typically sold at larger shows, its simply out of reach for the typical collector.

[BillJones]

The "typical collector" mostly collects State Quarters, Lincoln cents, silver eagles and perhaps a few modern commemorative coins. Many of them know very little about 18th and 19th century coinage. The trouble is most small collectors don’t have a lot of money to spend on their hobby, especially these days. And given the sheer size of shows like FUN, the ANA, Baltimore and Long Beach, most of them are overwhelmed. In fact even a collector who as studied the books and knows something about what he would like to buy, can be intimidated by these shows the first couple of times around.

 

The idea of helping these people navigate their first large bourse sounds good, but I doubt that many of them will take advantage of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oldtrader3]

These show are intimidating, even for me who has been going to shows since the 1970's. Before about 1980, shows were small, even Long Beach. Then these shows became very large and the character of the show changed. The small local dealers were pushed to the back of the room by the Heritage's and other large dealers who want you to show your money, big money, or walk.

 

In those days (the 1980's), I bought mostly coins priced under $200. I found lots of material to buy but the problem was getting anyone at many dealer tables to even bother to answer my questions and show me coins. I would typically save up and spend $500./$700 at each Long Beach show. If I could find a dealer who would help me. Price was never the issue, quality was. This was in the 1980's, when $500 was more money than today.

 

Half the tables that I found with material that I wanted were manned by surrogates who could not make a deal or answer questions. The dealer was gone from the table for hours, wheeling-and-dealing with other dealers. So, I would go home without material that I would have bought if someone cared enough to at least come to their table once in awhile.

 

These behaviors have not changed since 1980. I am not a big social butterfly by nature as most coin collectors are not as well. It is intimidating to try and deal with the "buy mine or blow off" dealers when you are trying to find a really nice , particular coin. This behavior misfit between some dealers and some shy collectors will never change. So, it is the nature of the beast and basis of an issue between dealers and collectors that will never change.

[BillJones]

I used to go to shows in New York City in the 1970s. At that time I never any trouble getting most of the dealers to talk to me. The main ones with "an attitude" were the larger dealers. Some of them were more interested in conducting auctions than retail sales. Most of the time I worked with small to medium dealers like the late Robert Bachelor and C.E. Bullowa.

 

I only had a dealer refuse to show me a coin once. It was an 1800 half dime, and his line was "You can't afford that," which when I saw his price lists, I had to agree with him.

[World Colonial]

I have only been to large shows (ANA 4 times, Long Beach once and a regional show in Atlanta once) except for once when I went to a local one in Atlanta when I used to live there. I do not find them intimidating because its what I am used to though it might be different if I did a lot of buying and selling. I dont because there is nothing or hardly anything for me to buy and so I've never been in a situation where I had to make a decision to drop a lot of money or not.

 

Because I do not collect US coins, its unlikely I would bother to go to a local coin show again. I would consider it a complete waste of time, as I would expect that it would mainly provide an opportunity to look at material I would consider common and ordinary.

 

I would agree that the "typical" collector does collect what you say, but if that is also representative of those who go to a large coin show, then my response would be that they might need to use some better judgement. I do not go up to ANY table and ask to see something or waste a dealers time if I am not going to buy anything; Some might ask to see a coin just for the sake of seeing it. Some people might but not me.

[BillJones]

I would agree that the "typical" collector does collect what you say, but if that is also representative of those who go to a large coin show, then my response would be that they might need to use some better judgement. I do not go up to ANY table and ask to see something or waste a dealers time if I am not going to buy anything; Some might ask to see a coin just for the sake of seeing it. Some people might but not me.

 

It might seem like a waste of dealer's time, BUT you if are ever going to learn how to grade coins, how to spot problems, learn how coins look in the variousl grades, get to know the characterisrtics certain issues of coins, in short learn ANYTHING about numismatics that help you to make decent buys, you need to look A LOT of coins. And only way you can do that is to go to a lot of shops, and/or go to a lot fo shows. And I'll tell you, you will see FAR more important coins at ONE major show than you can ever see at a shop, even if the shop is run by a large dealer.

 

You can learn a lot from pictures, but you learn a lot more from seeing the coin IN THE FLESH (metal). If you don't do that, as the dealers say, all you will be is meat on the table, unless the dealer is fair and honest.

[physics-fan3.14]

Yeah, Bill, but most people are too impatient to really put in the time and effort required to learn these things. And thus, many people make mistakes, lose money, get frustrated, and leave the hobby.

[Oldtrader3]

I usually work a show at least twice through looking before I start asking to see coins from most larger dealers. By the time I ask busy dealers to look, I have shopped the room and written down most of what interests me. Then I do ask to look, I am shopping to buy. I have been collecting for more than 50 years, know what I want, the coin appearance that I want, the condition I want and approximately what I am going to have to pay for it.

 

I know also, that I have spoken with some regular dealers at shows probably 50 times and bought coins worth up to $3000 apiece from them at several shows and they don't recognize me from Adam! Especially large dealers, I had bought over $70K in coins from one dealer plus selling him $85K in other coins and he did not know me from a hole in-the-ground and was not interested to know me at all. He just wanted my money and for me not to trouble him with any issues. I was just retired dog pXXp (with an MBA) and a checkbook to him.

 

World Colonial, I have no idea in the world what you mean by: "because its what I'm used to"? Are you blowing me off? Do you really believe after 50 years of attending coin shows and owning many, many 100's of gold and other coins over the years that I am not "used to it", what ever 'it' is related to shows?!?

[World Colonial]

I have no idea what you are even talking about and this yet another example of you misinterpreting my posts. When I hit the "reply" button, I was not even responding to your post. I was commenting on my experience at coin shows and not yours. So what made you think I was making a denigrading statement about you?

 

If you are going to make a criticism of my posts, at least make them for a valid reason. And if I ever do criticize your post or make a comment about what you or anyone else said, I will make it clear. No guessing will be required.

 

 

[michael]

basically coin dealers up the coin market

 

but the coin market has a hidden resilence that keeps going strong but of course if not for coin dealers the market would be 10,000+ times what it is today

 

maybe that is a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it

 

but coin dealers up the coin market

[Oldtrader3]

World Colonial, I was not criticizing you, I just could not fathom what it was that you were trying to say. Your post which I was referring to, has just that one phrase that was illiterative, a little out of context and difficult to interpret. I often have difficulty getting to the point of your posts. Nothing personal, I just have trouble reading your writing style. It may be my problem, or maybe a few commas for phrase clarification would help. Many people write like they speak, which can be a problem for others who are reading their prose.

[Houston Investor]

The dealer who thought $5500 was too small to fool with would be lonely at Houston shows. Many people attending Houston shows are doing good to have $100 in their pocket!

 

Customers should not be insulted. If I have a problem with a customer at a show then I simply sugggest he shop around rather than get in a heated arguement about grade or price.

[Oldtrader3]

Thank you, Derek, I agree. Coin collecting is a retail business and is no different than any other retail business. Your money should always be good as long as you are not a nuisance.