1909-S Indian Cent

[jpolz]

I'm looking for an Indian Cent. I'm thinking about an 09-S and I found this one, but if the grade that was on the slab was accurate for the coin then I'm either going to have to re-asses my target grade upwards or choose a different year.

 

Here's the pic:

 

 

 

Thanks for the help!

 

 

 

 

[L1ncolnF4n]

I don't know who slabbed that, looks PCGS by the outline. That is a VERY worn coin, detail wise maybe G-04 or VG-08, probably has been polished or cleaned or altered in some way to get the RB-like coloring. The reverse is necessary for grading. I wouldn't buy this piece. If you just want an IHC why buy one of the key dates? Go easy with like a 1907 or 1906 or some general common piece.

[Coindude]

I don't think it's worn, I actually think this coin is RB and lower MS. It's a bad picture but you can see detail. If you look closely you can see all of LIBERTY. But it definitely looks RB, lower MS would be my guess, but very hard to tell from those photos.

[dean1345]

I think it is quite worn. The ribbon has worn into the feather headdress and there are minimum feather details also. I would pass on this IMHO.

[dean1345]

I think it is quite worn. The ribbon has worn into the feather headdress and there are minimum feather details also. I would pass on this IMHO.

[jpolz]

Well it's in a PCGS VF35 holder. Apparently in-hand this thing just barely misses being an Extremely Fine, which blows my mind.

 

I understand that a picture can be bad, but that looks like a helluva lot of wear to me. I was thinking VG-8 myself, but I don't understand how a bad pic can supposedly hide that much detail.

 

And yes, I passed. Best case scenario I could see is the coin is a "technical" VF but the picture is obscuring something that I want to know about before I buy.

 

 

[prudden]

I think there may be some toning obscuring the details. Or the grader had a bad day.Still,A VF 35 shouldn't be that color? How about a picture of the reverse?By the way, keep shopping.You can probably find better.

[jpolz]

Added a pic of the reverse. Thanks for all the input everybody. This will help me as I continue my search.

 

 

[Coindude]

Wow, then it must have been cleaned I would think. I wish the pics would have had more light. Anyhow, I think you made the right decision on passing.

[BillJones]

Well it's in a PCGS VF35 holder. Apparently in-hand this thing just barely misses being an Extremely Fine, which blows my mind.

 

There have been periods when both of the major grading services grossly over graded key date, circulated coins. This was a real shame because while they mostly maintained their standards for the Mint State grades, they tried to "chart new territory" with regard to the standards for the coins that budget minded collectors buy.

 

They succeeded in lowering the standards for some items like the 1916-D Mercury dime, but were less successful for the 1877 and 1909-S Indian cents.

 

If this coin is as weak as it looks from the photos, I think you ought to try to make PCGS put its money where its grade is. They should be forced to make you whole for the difference between the VG this coin appears to be and the Choice VF they claim it is. Having said that, I'll also add "good luck." Without some pull, which comes from being a major grading customer, these grading guarantees don't seem to be worth the paper they are written upon.

 

[James_OldeTowne]

Well it's in a PCGS VF35 holder. Apparently in-hand this thing just barely misses being an Extremely Fine, which blows my mind.

I don't know why, but PCGS seems to be the worst grader of this particular coin, the 1909-S Indian cent. I just cataloged one last night that they graded "F-12", and LIBERTY is less than 1/2 there! And, the balance of the coin is easily no better than VG. It makes no sense to me, but you can bet I alerted potential bidders to the excessively "optimistic" assessment!

 

I have to agree that the subject coin here is severely overgraded. It looks like a cleaned and poorly recolored F-12 from that image, and that's being generous.