Up Next, The Buffalo Nickel...

[dakra]

Now that many of my modern collections are completed or nearing completion, the next set I would like to put together is the Buffalo Nickel. For some reason they suddenly are appealing to me.

 

For those of you who are familiar in the area, what can you tell me about collecting the Buffalo Nickel? What to look for, what to look out for, grading tips?

 

From what I have read, some years had either really bad strikes or the dies were well worn. Is it hard to differentiate a worn die from a circulated piece?

 

Any info would be appreciated.

 

-Dave

[jom]

Damn. I just trashed a pic I had guiding people where to look for wear. I guess I can make another...

 

Also, get Dave Lange's book on Buffalo nickels. 2nd edition.

 

Another thing, I collect Buffs and since you collecting Buffs would bring competition why don't you collect, I dunno say, 3-cent silvers instead...

 

jom

[bigd5]

My favorite series, and the first series I ever completed.

Hoot can express the benefits and pitfalls (wrong word?) of this series much better than I ever could, but it is a series that requires experience, when it comes to grading.

These probably give more collectors fits, grading wise, than any other series.

It can be difficult discerning between a weakly struck piece, and a circulated piece, but once you can distinguish the difference, it's like a light that goes off in your head when you look at the coins. That subtle luster break, or change of color at the high points that gives the grade away. Again, something you have to get the feel for, and I can't explain in words.

The whole series is readily available, of course depending on what grade levels you will be looking for. An uncirculated set is a long road, and even a higher grade circulated set can be tough. Again, available though. Financial limitations will most likely be what forces you to decide which route to take.

I would recommend Lange's book (The Complete Guide to Buffalo Nickels) as a MUST! I would imagine if you PM'd the author here, you may even be able to have a copy autographed

I've always liked date sets for Buffalo Nickels. One coin for each date, and usually a very attractive set can be put together, without making a second (or third!) mortgage a necessity.

Good Luck!!!!!

 

[jom]

Here's the picture:

 

 

By far the best place to look for wear is on the REVERSE. Look near the Buffs arse. The cheek of the chief is much harder to see. The places marked "S" are where to look for strike problems...usually. Also, sometimes there is weakness around the rims, often messing up the "E Pluribus" etc etc.

 

jom

[dakra]

Jom,

I'm not really competition. Right now I have a bunch of well worn Buffs and an MS63 on it's way. I will most likely start with the fillers and upgrade as I go along.

 

Thanks for the pictures, they will definately help me distinguish what to look for in strike and wear. Are there certain dates that are known to have good and bad strikes?

 

... now if my son would only take a nap, It might not take 20 minutes to reply.

 

-Dave

[TomB]

Nice image, jom.

 

What is the "W" for near the Native American's mouth and under the bison's tail?

[Wihlborg]

Dave,

 

Jom and bigd5 have already given you some excellent advice, all of which I agree with. I would just like to second a few of the points that have been made.

 

This can indeed be a very tough and expensive series to collect in any grade from AU and up if you intend to complete a full date/mint set. I would recommend looking at some of the price guides to get a feel for what it is going to cost you to collect the coins in the grades you might be interested in, then you will have to decide how you want to collect them. Do you want to try to tackle the full date/mint set, just a date set, or short set (1934-1938)?

 

I also feel that it is a series where the more knowledge you have about it the better, so my advice is read and learn as much about it as you can. I also highly recommend buying and reading a copy of David Lange’s The Complete Guide to Buffalo Nickels second edition.

 

Finally, take your time and buy nice eye appealing examples in whatever grade you chose to collect them in.

 

Good luck!

 

John

 

[Elcontador]

Jom,

 

Re the Buff, you know more about the series than I do, but I've seen a number of weakly struck Uncs (chiefly S mint coins from the 20s) w/o a split tail.

[jom]

TomB:

 

I put the letter there to distinguish which "circle" meant what.

 

W = Wear area

S = Strike problem area

 

In most cases, the bad strike area is not in the same place where wear first shows up. Another words, the Buffs arse is not usually a weakly struck area...usually.

 

Elcon:

 

You are correct. I should have mentioned the tail.

 

dakra:

 

Get Lange's book. There is a 2nd edition remember.

 

jom

[dakra]

Wihlborg ,

I'd like to thank everyone for responding and I will indeed pick up David Lang's book when I get a chance.

 

My goal is to complete the entire set (by mint). I know some of the coins are on the high end, I will probably start with the more inexpensive ones first, when I get nearer to completion, I will probably get the sudden urge to plunk the money down on the more expensive coins. I know some people like to do it the opposite way but the way I look at it, anything can happen by the time I get to the more expensive coins... like some long lost Aunt coming across her Buffalo collection

 

My wife is home, I can finally spend some time on the computer without interruption!!

 

-Dave

[dakra]

Thanks again everyone.

I ordered the book today...

Where are you Hoot? Need more insight

Jom, the image you have of that Buff, what is the grade on that coin? I want to become more familiar with the grade so I figured I would use the one I received today and yours as my starting point. Although it's tough to grade from a picture and I'm relatively new at this, mine appears to be a little higher in grade (MS63) although it appears as though it might have a small bit of carbon spotting by the rim. I'll have to take a closer look when I get a chance.

 

Anyone else have any pics? grades?

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

 

[Hoot]

Hi dakra - Where have I been? Sicker than a dog. Feel like I couldn't tell a Buff from a Jeff.

 

For those of you who are familiar in the area, what can you tell me about collecting the Buffalo Nickel? What to look for, what to look out for, grading tips?

 

I think you've gotten a lot of great advice. In addition to Lange's book, I'd also recommend Halperin's book, How to Grade U.S. Coins. Lots of illustrations on the most susceptible areas for wear. Also, look for The Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection. The second edition is due out by mid-March 2004, so I'd wait. Amazon will carry it.

 

Grading AU and MS buffs is tricky and they are heavily market graded. This is primarily due to what has been mentioned about strike, which varies dramatically from beginning to end of the series. You literally have to become familiar with the strike qualities of each year, each mint. I'm rather fond of Philadelphia coins, as they are generally the best struck. But keep in mind that Philadelphia didn't strike any nickels in 1931 or 1938 .

 

Areas of strike weakness common from 1917-1931, especially at the branch mints (in no particular order): 1) LIBERTY; 2) the Indian's hair knot and the hair just above it; 3) the tips of the Indian's feathers; 4) the date and robe creases of the Indian's shoulder area; 5) the top of the buffalo's head, including the tip of the horn; 6) the buffalo's shoulder area, especially the details of the mane; 7) the hip of the buff, including the tassle of the tail; 8) the bison's hind leg; 9) the plain below the bison's chin; 10) on 1913-15 nickels, the texture of the fields (which are strongest on the 1913 type 1 coins); 11) worn dies exhibit mush lettering, especially in the motto.

 

Just a note on high-end AU buffs... 1) They are the best bargain in the market. You can find some really great stuff there if you look long and hard enough. 2) They can be tough to detect and you should be aware of this if you are buying raw coins. 3) You have to learn to differentiate AU from strike weakness, but this goes hand-in-hand with what I said about getting to know the series.

 

From what I have read, some years had either really bad strikes or the dies were well worn. Is it hard to differentiate a worn die from a circulated piece?

 

Some say that grading circulated coins is easier than AU/MS. I don't find this to be generally true about buffs. A lot of attention is paid to areas of strike weakness in all grades, and some strikes were bad from the start, so to generalize about the entire series, as does Photograde, is a mistake. This gets ultra-tough when trying to assign a grade to a weakly struck coin that has been circulated. Sometimes you won't be able to tell the difference, but it's part of the challenge of the series to learn the difference. Differentiation of strike weakness versus wear plays a role in grading in grades of ~35 and above.

 

Also, keep in mind that even as you become very familiar with the series, you will still make mistakes. Don't let anyone buffalo you into thinking a circulated piece is a higher grade than you think it is.

 

This series provides endless collection opportunities. A nice looking XF/AU set in an album or in slabs is very tough to assemble and can be quite handsome. Circulated pieces can show fantastic detail and can have great toning and other qualities that fit the eye appeal criterion.

 

Okay, I'm exhausted. Hoot

[dakra]

Hoot,

I've been taking care of my wife and son the past few days, I'm starting to feel a little under the weather, so I know how you feel. Thanks for posting the additional information, it really helps getting everyones input on the series.

 

Besides the books you mentioned, I saw a video on a website today in regards to ANA grading. I'm not sure how indepth it goes but as I venture from the norm, every little bit will help.

 

I've also been checking the ebay auction pics and registry pics to see if I can get a good feel for grading the buffs.... unfortunately looking at the pics has thrown me off as some I feel are lower grade and others I wonder why they didn't get graded higher.

 

Thanks,

Dave

[sanmary]

Also, if you are planning on collecting Mint State coins, some of the dates are really tough on your wallet!

[jom]

Dakra: The large pic I posted of the 14-P has a grade of AU58.

 

Oddly, I bought the coin in an NGC holder graded MS63 but at one point I was considering doing a registry so I cracked it out and sent it to PCGS. It came back 58. I remember being real pissed off when I saw the grade posted at PCGS before I got the coin back. "How could that be!" I said. Well, sure enough, when I got the coin back I looked again. It WAS AU. Argh! Sometime I'm so enamored with the color I forget to look carefully. Turns out it isn't a big deal on the price difference so it doesn't much matter to me. But this is yet just another example of how the slabs really don't help you UNLESS you help yourself by being able to grade. Or at least pay attention...which I didn't.

 

That is why I chose that coin to post. Look at the Buffs hip/butt. There be rub there! Argh!

 

Actually, what you should do for as long as it takes is LOOK at as many Buffs as you can in all grades. If you are going to collect MS coins then look at coins as low as AU50. Go to auction lot viewings as much as possible. That is a real cheap way of seeing coins. Do this over and over and over again until you are sure you know what you are donig. THEN start collecting the later dates. That way you can familiarize yourself with the higher grades. Most of those dates are easier to find in high grades. I would not recommend buying ANYTHING until you are sure about what you are doing...however.

 

Good luck...sucker..

 

jom

[Bruceswar]

Dakra, Enclosed in some inspiration... At least to me it is .. mabye that is because it is mine

[Bruceswar]

[Bruceswar]