Since WHEN are coins to which NOTHING was "done" but -

[Boom]

 

Since when are coins to which NOTHING was done ... coins not dipped, no chemicals, no "agent" - NADDA being introduced to or placed on the surfaces - that were simply stored in between pages of a book IN small manilla-like envelopes considered ARTIFICIALLY TONED? SINCE WHEN?

 

THIS is Nonsense!

 

 

[MunkyMan95]

I assume you are talking about a coin you sent to NGC or PCGS and it came back in a bodybag due to artificial toning?

 

In that case, there is no "artificial" or "natural." There is only Market Acceptable or not. If they deem the coin to not be acceptable by John Q. Collector, they don't holder it.

[Boom]

I just received a PM from a submitter here that admits he just had coins that were BLATANTLY AT grade out. WTF? READ THAT AGAIN. In fact, I can copy & paste his PM, if need be (leaving his name out, of course!)

 

Then, there is YET another submitter here who has bought coins from me with OUTRAGEOUS toning that not only get graded here BUT come back with STAR attributions!

 

I send 5 beautiful pieces than a novice can tell is NT and get ALL 5 BAGGED?

 

What a load!

 

I AM OUTRAGED!

[MarkFeld]

Graders (usually) grade in a vacuum, without knowing the history of the coins, and must grade, based on what they see. Consequently, they grade some coins which have been artificially toned, but which don't look it. And conversely, they body-bag some coins which look AT, but aren't. You should already know that.

 

We might not be able to comment intelligently on the issue you raised, even if you do provide quality images of the coins in question. And if you don't, on a practical basis, your thread amounts to nothing more than a (baseless) rant.

[Mozin]

Boom, sorry for your body bags. There is no way telling ahead of time what the graders will say at any given moment. I hate the submission game!

[Mark T]

I just received a PM from a submitter here that admits he just had coins that were BLATANTLY AT grade out. WTF? READ THAT AGAIN. In fact, I can copy & paste his PM, if need be (leaving his name out, of course!)

 

Then, there is YET another submitter here who has bought coins from me with OUTRAGEOUS toning that not only get graded here BUT come back with STAR attributions!

 

I send 5 beautiful pieces than a novice can tell is NT and get ALL 5 BAGGED?

 

What a load!

 

I AM OUTRAGED!

 

You should post some pictures of those coins.

The whole TPG grading game can be very frustrating as well as rewarding .

 

[MarkFeld]

The whole TPG grading game can be very frustrating as well as rewarding .

True, though some submitters act as if they are entitled to the latter, but shouldn't have to deal with the former.

[Boom]

Thanks Mark. Good to "see" you again!

[Boom]

Thanks Buddy.

[Boom]

Oh well. Live & learn. (*-*)

[gmarguli]

I assume you are talking about a coin you sent to NGC or PCGS and it came back in a bodybag due to artificial toning?

 

Considering the number of posts he has made over here compared to the ~20X as many ATS in about the same amount of time, I think it is safe to say he is referring to an NGC problem. However, without pictures the post is meaningless.

 

Oh, BTW, here is his follow-up post ATS:

 

I had 5 pristine Quarters (totally hit-free with tremendous luster).

 

I placed them in envelpes and then inside a Book on the bookshelf

 

where they remained, totally undisturbed for 4 years. NOTHING

 

was "introduced" to ANY of the surfaces. They were not dipped -

 

they were not in some hot, humid environment. No agent or catalyst,

 

beyond the envelopes themselves, EVER touched these coins! NOTHING!

 

So basically an AT experiment that didn't go as planned. I hate when that happens.

[Boom]

What REALLY is strange is that one guy I know just admitted that some baltantly AT coins were graded! These certainly weren't obtained from me.

 

I fail to see how a PQ coin simply placed in a coin envelope for a number of years, having had zero contact with any chemical agent other than the envelope itself, can be deemed Artificial, particularly in light of similar countless instances in which coins were stored in the very same manner.

 

Enough said. Thanks to all for your input.

[gmarguli]

I fail to see how a PQ coin simply placed in a coin envelope for a number of years, having had zero contact with any chemical agent other than the envelope itself, can be deemed Artificial, particularly in light of similar countless instances in which coins were stored in the very same manner.

 

 

[TomB]

What REALLY is strange is that one guy I know just admitted that some baltantly AT coins were graded! These certainly weren't obtained from me.

I can't even begin to recall all the times that folks have claimed to get blatantly AT coins in holders or know others who have done so, yet I also can't seem to recall anyone ever posting an image of such coins. Granted, the sporadic AT or AT-looking coin in an NGC or PCGS holder is linked on the boards or embedded in a thread, but no one ever takes claim for getting these coins in their holders. Oh well...I guess I'll just chalk that up to not believing everything I read on the net.

[michael]

What REALLY is strange is that one guy I know just admitted that some baltantly AT coins were graded! These certainly weren't obtained from me.

I can't even begin to recall all the times that folks have claimed to get blatantly AT coins in holders or know others who have done so, yet I also can't seem to recall anyone ever posting an image of such coins. Granted, the sporadic AT or AT-looking coin in an NGC or PCGS holder is linked on the boards or embedded in a thread, but no one ever takes claim for getting these coins in their holders. Oh well...I guess I'll just chalk that up to not believing everything I read on the net.

 

(thumbs u

 

and grading is an unqualified art with yet no standards universally accepted then add to the mix private for profit investor pricing services

 

if you got a coin you know it's NT and/or you like it why the hell do you need TO send it and pay for someone elses highly subjective opinion and then put in their plastic holder?? or not and then complain about it

 

leave em raw and enjoy your hobby

 

 

send something in and pay to have it looked at with no clear grading scale and highly subjective to boot then complain when you do not see eye to eye with the other persons opinion?? it is all highly subjective and always changing IF YOU ALREADY KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE COIN AND HAVE MORE INFORMATION than anyone else about the coin and have formed your own opinion about the coin dont complain if you voluntally send in a coin for someone elses opinion based on their preferences and own subjective grading scale and pay for this you will always be disappoingted

 

unelss you got other motives for sending the coin into this lottery and you dont win and continue to complain

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

This is part of the misconception of what constitutes "natural toning". It is NOT an estimation of what actually happened to the coin, but what it LOOKS like happened to the coin.

 

In other words, you can pop a coin out of a brand new proof set, leave a coin in a album for 10 years, and watch it develop outrageous toning. This doesn't matter - the fact that you know it was naturally toned. What matters is whether the resulting toning "looks right".

[WinstonWare]

[PerryHall]

Boom---Is there some reason that you won't show us pics of these coins?

[kryptonitecomics]

Boom---Is there some reason that you won't show us pics of these coins?

 

I believe he stated across the street that he doesn't have the coins back yet. Maybe he was waiting to image them in the holder

 

Regardless...I have had plenty of NT coins straight out of original mint sets bagged so I know there are no guarantees. Would love to see the pictures to see if the coins look MA to me. (thumbs u

[PCcoins]

Please post some pics when you receive them back!

[relicsncoins]

It seems that these coins that have been stored in envelopes or TP or napkins share a simmilar toning pattern and color. They seem to start out golden and eventually progress to very blue near the edges and russet/oranges near the center. I have yet to see one develop the classic rainbow bag toning typical on toned Morgans. I think the TPG's are keyed in on this type of toning and are bagging it.

[BillJones]

 

Yes, that sums it up quite well.

 

I've won and I have lost the coin submission lottery. Sometimes I think that the grading services have to body bag ONE coin in every submission just as a matter of policy. Recently I sold this 1814 large cent to a dealer after it had been body bagged for "questionable toning." The coin is head and shoulders over most any Classic Head large cent you will see. The dealer knew the coin had been body bagged because I told him, and it was housed in an old ANACS holder when he bought it.

 

[prudden]

Hey James,

 

What toning?

 

[stman]

Interesting, the OP is so much nicer over here with his comments about the grading company. Here's just one from the PCGS board......

There must be a bunch of very inexperienced graders at work. There should have been NO issues!

 

[gmarguli]

Interesting, the OP is so much nicer over here with his comments about the grading company. Here's just one from the PCGS board......

There must be a bunch of very inexperienced graders at work. There should have been NO issues!

 

He is 100% correct. There should have been NO issues! The coins are AT and treated by NGC as such.

[WinstonWare]

Sometimes I think that the grading services have to body bag ONE coin in every submission just as a matter of policy.

 

I hear you brother!

[MikeInFL]

FWIW, I agree with Mark and Greg and Michael on this one.

[rrantique]

FWIW, I agree with Mark and Greg and Michael on this one.

 

(thumbs u

[WoodenJefferson]

The services just somehow know.

[Mark T]

 

Yes, that sums it up quite well.

 

I've won and I have lost the coin submission lottery. Sometimes I think that the grading services have to body bag ONE coin in every submission just as a matter of policy. Recently I sold this 1814 large cent to a dealer after it had been body bagged for "questionable toning." The coin is head and shoulders over most any Classic Head large cent you will see. The dealer knew the coin had been body bagged because I told him, and it was housed in an old ANACS holder when he bought it.

 

 

The only questionable thing about this coin in my opinion would be why was it bagged !!

It looks original to me. Nice brown chocolate.

Maybe they had an issue with the little red spot on the reverse ?