Collectors and Dealers

[MikeKing]

I'll start this by noting that in many ways dealers get a bad rap. Some get a good rap...the most honorable ones and some less honorable just because someone or a few people had good interactions with them (there's a currency dealer on ebay who launders his currency and sells it under a lie, but has a 100% positive review...so what does that tell you).

 

And surely, most surely, a lot of collectors must be a total pain in the ar se.

 

But in my professional life, I commited myself to people I worked with for better or for worse, not just because my professional objectives incorporated this, but because that's the way I like it. If I worked at a local ice cream parlor, I would treat the people who came up to my window with more respect, no matter how nuts they were (unless dangerous or disruptive) than I've received from some dealers who recieved a LOT of money from me.

 

Well...maybe to them, I'm but a lousy peon, but really, I salute them with my XXXX. I'm a collector. Just being the collector commands respect. No matter what 'level' you are at, or what 'price range' you collect. The very dealers who will not give me the time of day after spending twenty thousand dollars on their coins, or get pissed at me because I might be slow in understanding their answer to a question of mine, after spending tens of thousands on their coins, or an auction firm not treating me respectfully (and respectful = appropriately fair deal as defined by ME) after spending hundreds of thousands, really really really SUX.

 

There is no dealer who could survive without people like you and me willing to part with their hard earned money for a piece of art or history or both. That alone should command respect. But it doesn't.

 

If you disagree with me, so be it, I'm not writing this to argue a point, just to make it. In fact, I'm so fed up, I don't even care what anyone thinks (wow...is this getting pompous).

 

Obviously, I was just pissed off by a dealer.

 

DO YOU KNOW THAT IN ALL MY LIFE AND ALL MY TRAVELING AND SPENDING THAT THERE HASN'T BEEN ONE DEALER WHO TOOK A SERIOUS CONCERN WITH MY COLLECTION??? (Mark Feld excluded because I never gave him a chance, and he is a really really thoughtful guy). And there are others I have to exclude from my rant, like Dave Wnuck, honorable, and Mike Printz, honorable, D ick Osburn, honorable. But honestly, I'm but a peon, and my collection was not of interest to anyone. I could have delighted in working with a dealer building my collection, but that became an unrealistic expectation.

 

Well...I've complained about this before

and obviously I haven't met a dealer who was interested in my collecting interests

and obviously I've pissed off a few because the words out of my mouth were not what they really wanted to hear. We're all human. But again, I am the collector, and they are the dealer, and I can use a metal detector and find coins and create a set if I had to, if no dealers existed, but a dealer cannot exist without clientele.

 

You see...as a professional, I always respected clientele no matter what I was doing, whether it was working at a cash register or resuscitating someone in a hospital. I always respected clientele if they were rude or offensive or difficult (granted...to a degree), because, even though they could exist without me, and I relied on them for my income, they deserved respect because of other things as well. You don't have to be a philosophy major to figure that one out.

 

Have I ranted enough?

My fingers ache, otherwise I would go on...

 

A good dealer has the ability to get a collector through and over the rough patches. That is a nice ability to have. It's also a responsibility.

 

 

[michael]

 

i totally understand.......................................

 

 

 

 

 

on one side you got collector emotion and the other a businessman in it to make a living

 

and it is always difficult present and regretful realizations if there is money involved

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[James_OldeTowne]

For issues like these, I put far more faith in my fellow coin club members than in dealers. Indeed, this is my second post just tonight with this same tone! We have a coin club meeting every first Friday of every month, and it is something I look forward to.

 

I neither expect nor demand that dealers take the slightest interest in my collecting needs. When they do, that's fantastic, but really, I just want them to help facilitate a financial transaction, and I'll take all the responsibility for making the right collecting decisions.

 

Just for me: I have low expectations! I am very serious in this statement, but also do not make this statement in any demeaning way whatsoever. It's just part of my numismatic philosophy.

[michael]

Just for me: I have low expectations! I am very serious in this statement, but also do not make this statement in any demeaning way whatsoever. It's just part of my numismatic philosophy.

 

(thumbs u

[EZ_E]

I think a fundamental fact of life is that most people in this world are selfish, self-interested bores. A major exception are most of the forum members I've met over the past 6+ years. I've said for years that the NGC boards is a microcosm of some of the finest people that I've ever had the privilege to meet.

 

Another exception I've found is in the hospital setting. In 16 years as a diagnostic imaging technologist, I could probably count on one hand the patients that crossed the line with me. I usually always will treat my patient with humor and respect and they usually always respond in kind. I'm sure that you know exactly what I'm talking about, Mike. But docs and techs are there to help a person in need so I think that they're on their best behavior, too. However, my sister is an MD at a county hospital in Vegas and most of them are selfish, whining brats wanting a prescription so I guess that there's an exception to every rule. Then, we get out in the real world where most people are selfish pr*cks looking to get what they can in life heedless of others. This is where most coin dealers fall, in my experience, right up there with used car salesmen (which my dad was and, yes, he was a pr*ck). So, I refuse to deal with such people or even give them the time of day although it is not always avoidable.

 

Just know, Mike, that you are well liked and respected on these boards so to hell with the rest!

 

even though they could exist without me

 

And, that's not always true. How many lives have you saved as an ER doc, Mike? Think about it. You have given back to society in a major way. Not too many people have had that honor to help his fellow man like you have.

[World Colonial]

I expect that dealers will pay attention to the collector in direct proportion to what they spend with them most of the time. In a sense, that's just a rational response but because of it, I do not even waste my time expecting anything else.

 

In the past, I have asked a few dealers that specialized in my areas if they would actively look for a particular coin or coins and I did not even get a reply. I probably will not bother again.

[EZ_E]

The dealers that I've had pleasant experiences with are: Mark Feld, Wayne Herndon, Pinnacle Rarities and many board members.

[IGWT]

Mike: This issue has been stuck in your craw for quite some time. I agree that dealers who take an interest are few and far between. The answer, as James suggests (and as I wrote before), is found in relationships with other collectors who are more than happy to share their expertise, experience, and enthusiasm.

[DC Dawg]

I understand these sentiments completely, especially since it extends beyond the collecting business. As the economy is worsening, the term "customer service" seems to be an oxymoron. Even in Starbucks when I realized I was being irrational over a cup of coffee, I tried to end an "argument" with an apology and was told to "shut up."

 

When I go to coin shows, I have a specific set of dealers I visit. I buy from them because they are nice people and I feel their prices are fair. A few have asked what I was looking for and what grade. One helped me look through a set of Morgan Dollars looking for something I wanted. There was another dealer who searched a junk box of large cents to help me find an 18th century coin whose date could be read. I've been back to see that dealer again.

 

Since most of my show visits are to Baltimore, I tend to go around the periphery than to the tables in the middle. I think the best dealers to go to are the ones nearest the walls and in Hall C at the Baltimore Convention Center. They are not the dealers with the most expensive coins. But they are the dealers with quality coins, fair prices, and nice people.

 

I feel your pain. But I am not losing sleep over it at this point. It's no longer worth worrying about!

 

Scott

[EZ_E]

Even in Starbucks when I realized I was being irrational over a cup of coffee, I tried to end an "argument" with an apology and was told to "shut up."

 

 

So, did you?

[coinman1794]

I'm sorry you had a bad experience, MikeKing. I would be interested in hearing more about it.

 

Part of the problem of being a dealer is that you cant keep everyone in mind, all the time, even if you try. A dealer is worried about overhead, and maintaining inventory, and taxes, and security, etc. Plus, maybe you could take an interest in someones collection, but you may never get to see it, and it is simply hard be interested all your customer's invisible coins. That is not to say you cant try. The better dealers will put their best foot forward to help their clients, but it will always be imperfect.

[just-john]

I feel that many dealers lack of customer service or their poor attitude 1 = many dealers are coin poor

2 = many were in the hobby and thought they could make a easy living at it and were wrong probably again

3 = many buy what they like and not what sells or what they can make money on

4 = they shouldn't be in business are miserable and it rubs off on their customers .

What I have found is if I go to one local dealer few times a month buy a case of whitman 2x2 plastic snap together or just the carboard 2x2's maybe a proof set or mint set and after that if the attitude doesn't change I don't go back and tell him/her

that when I leave .But every now and then you get a nice suprise one dealer now alway saves me the old COINWORLD paper's and even gives me sometomes a copy of the grey sheets . So I stop by we BS a little his dog barked at me at first but now even the dog is nice. He knows that there are no coins in his store that I can't live without because lets face coins are really not needed nobody has to have it most money is wasted on them anyway.Now a used car salesmen well you really need a car nowadays.

Would think that I have more spending money than most of the dealer's who own the stores that i visit . NOT ALL JUST MOST thought most can type better than me

[BillJones]

When I was a dealer the collectors who usually made me the angriest were the cheapskates who thought they were entitled to buy coins at wholesale prices because they had a subscription to the Gray Sheet. These people seem to think that a dealer can PAY them Gray Sheet prices for what they are selling and SELL at Gray Sheet prices for the material they were buying. Somehow a dealer was supposed to cover his overhead (table rent, transportation costs etc.) and make a profit by buying and selling coins at the same price levels. When I’d had enough of these people badgering me for lower prices, I’d ask them, “Do you work your job for 10 cents an hour? Do you donate your time at to your employer and forego a salary?” None of them admitted to doing volunteer work for a living.

 

Other collectors who got under my skin where the ones who expected me to evade the state sales tax even after I had cut my mark-up to the bone. One time I had customer at a Massachusetts show agree to buy a silver dollar for $475. Just before he was ready to hand over the money, he asked if sales tax was included in the price. Foolish me to him truthfully, “Yes.” With that he voided the deal and exploded that there was no sales tax on coins in Connecticut, and that I was an SOB for charging him sales tax. I didn’t bother to tell him that he had crossed the border into Massachusetts, and that Massachusetts sales tax laws were now in force. You can’t reason with irrationality. And yes, if I had eaten the sales tax, my mark-up on a $450 sale would have been $15. A business person can’t survive on that.

 

Ultimately the joke was on this Connecticut collector. At the time silver dollar prices were on the up swing, and a couple of shows later I sold that coin at a higher price in line with the market. If he had bought the coin at my price, he could have sold it at a profit a couple of months later.

 

Collectors have good reason to be angry at some dealers, but they need to think before they start yelling about prices and sales taxes. They don’t work at their jobs for nothing, and they should not expect a coin dealer to work for nothing.

 

[EZ_E]

Excellent post, Bill. The only time I had rented a table on the bourse, I did zero retail business even though I had a wide selection of good coins. The public were all tire kickers and wanted things for practically nothing. So there is most definitely a tale from the other side of the coin.

 

Ultimately the joke was on this Connecticut collector.

 

Yep, dem damned Connecticut collectors.........!

 

Hello, TomB and Mike King.