Best Album For Toning (Jeffs)

[spy88]

I have most of my Jeff collection in a Whitman 9116 Classic where both sides are viewable. Can't be sure, cause its kinda like watching a tree grow, but I am pretty sure that most of the ones that are toning, were not that toned or toned at all, before I put them in it.

 

Have heard talk that Dansco albums also seem to do a tone job. Bought one for my MS SHQ set. Right now, they are in a Whitman 8089 Classic, and I KNOW they aren't toning at all so am going to transfer them. Does anyone agree with this or is there a more "tone-prone" album out there?

 

Thanks!

[TomB]

It's been my experience that the Whitman Classic albums tend to tone silver coinage more than the Dansco albums if what you are looking for is a pure color scheme. As for nickel and clad coinage, I have not seen much difference in speed of toning, however, I think the Dansco albums give a more uniform, translucent crecsent to the coins while the Whitman Classic gives a deeper toning that is more prone to spotting. This is all simply anecdotal.

[spy88]

Tom, as I said, my Jeffs are in a Whitman Classic, but I do not use the plastic slides and haven't for quite some time. Now with my SHQs, I DO have the slides in place, and always been used. Do you think that the lack of slides in my Jeff album are adding to the toning process and using them in my SHQ album is retarding it?

 

And for the info and any follow-up!

[jom]

My limited experience:

 

I have had some copper/nickel Kennedy's go nuts in a Dansco holder. It took about 7 years for them to really show color. My state quarters are also beginning to tone now and those have been in there at most 4 years. My Ikes haven't done a thing nor have any silver issue.

 

If I were to try toning nickels I'd use the Dansco. In fact, I've broken some Buffs out (late dates) to give it a try.

 

jom

[jtryka]

This is a completely biased sample since I only have a Dansco album for my Jeffersons and not a Whitman, but after 15 years in the album, some of my early MS Jeffersons have toned in amazing colors and patterns. It's really quite remarkable. But I also notice that the toning seems inconsistent in that the earliest dates on the outside page toned the most, with far less on the second page, and most still blast white once you get to the middle. As for storage conditions, for the most part these were stored in a climate controlled safe deposit box (1987-2000) and on a book shelf for the last three years. I have not noticed much acceleration in toning in the last three years either. I hope this is somewhat helpful (I might try to post pictures later tonight to show the type of toning).

[jom]

I might try to post pictures later tonight to show the type of toning

 

Cooool! Can't wait. I'll be curious to see if they look like my Kennedy's.

 

Here are a few of mine:

 

Kennedy's

 

The 64, 72-D and 74 are slabbed coins and were never in my album. All the rest toned in my Dansco. All have been in the album since Early 1993 or possibly late 1992.

 

jom

[spy88]

Thanks everyone for your posts and opinions! Looking forward to all the pics of your toners from the various albums. Be sure to state which album it toned from and how long it has been in place, just for reference.

 

Again, would like to ask if using the clear sliders or NOT using might have some effect on toning.

 

Thanks!

[jom]

That reminds me. Jtryka mentioned his album was in a safe box. Mine was stored in a wooden (oak) file-type cabinet along with the rest of my raw sets at HOME.

 

Also, I don't know if I mentioned this. My Ike set has really done NOTHING, and that includes the copper-nickel ones. Which is odd since the Kennedy's did well (not all toned, however) and now the state quarters seem to be going pretty well.

 

jom

[spy88]

jom, am I correct when I say your SHQ are in a Dansco and are now starting to turn? If so, this is why I bought a Dansco for mine. They are doing nothing in my Whitman. Do you leave the clear slides in or out and do you think this has any effect on toning?

[Wihlborg]

David,

 

I had my complete collection of Jefferson nickels stored in a Dansco album for years before moving them to an Intercept Shield album back when they came out. While in the Dansco album most of the coins did not tone at all, some acquired light gold tone, and these two were the only ones that toned colorfully. Both of these coins were white before going into the Dansco album. It has been my experience, after storing a large number copper nickel coins in albums over the years, that the above pattern of toning has been consistent. A small percentage of the coins will tone nicely, a little larger percentage of the coins will tone a light gold, and the majority of the coins remain untoned. I have only used Dansco albums in the past, so I am unable to say if using other brands of albums will make a difference in the way the coins will tone if stored in them. I cannot say one way or the other if using the slides makes a difference, as I have never stored coins in an album without using the slides for the extra protection they provide to the coins.

 

 

John

 

 

[jom]

jom, am I correct when I say your SHQ are in a Dansco and are now starting to turn? If so, this is why I bought a Dansco for mine. They are doing nothing in my Whitman. Do you leave the clear slides in or out and do you think this has any effect on toning?

 

Yes, they are. The 1999 issues are at least. A brownish tone around the rims. And, yes, the slides are in.

 

I also, for complete accuracy, have two sets of these going. One in a generic "Quarters" holder (no dates printed on the pages) and another in a specific State Quarters holder. The generic one seems to be having a lot more effect on the toning. I do not know if this makes any difference but the generic holder I bought 10 years ago whereas the State Quarters holder is obviously much newer. The coins have been in the holders the same amout of time obviously and they are both stored in the same place.

 

jom

[Hoot]

Great looking nickels John! That 53 is a killer and a tough year to find well-struck, great nicks without nicks!

 

Hoot

[Wihlborg]

Thanks Hoot! Coming from you, I take your comment as a true complement!

 

John

 

[bigd5]

In my experience, I've had toning form in all of the above mentioned albums, but to different degrees in different slots. I have bunches of albums on a shelf with different "hot" slots notated. Some slots are hotter than others, as far as toning the coins. I have a few Whitman album slots that will tone nickels up some nice colors in 9 months. I have one over at NGC as we speak. Probably could have left it in the slot for a few more months, but.......

 

My Merc's haven't done a darn thing, and I have them spread out in a few different albums (Dansco, Whitman), looking for a little action. I'm going to pick up some different albums, next, and try that.

 

I don't believe the slides would have any effect on whether or not the coins tone in those particular albums.

[Hoot]

I would guess that slides, if they have an effect at all, would tend to cause toning across the surface. This would be from sublimation of tone-causing constituents that are then trapped and confined in the small air space between the slide and the coin. With the relatively extensive metal surface to react upon, the agents would likely react close to the point of emanation, but may also make their way to the central surfaces of the coin.

 

Just a thought. Hoot.

[spy88]

OUTSTANDING NTers, John! Very nice toning spread and I'll bet the colors are much nicer in hand! Is the 38-S a MS67 and the 53 a MS65+ (jaw nicks, collar hit)? REALLY like the 38---all the colors of the rainbow mixed in with the egg yolk yellow! N-I-C-E!

 

And thanks to jom, Hoot and bigd5 for all the feedback!

[Wihlborg]

OUTSTANDING NTers, John! Very nice toning spread and I'll bet the colors are much nicer in hand! Is the 38-S a MS67 and the 53 a MS65+ (jaw nicks, collar hit)? REALLY like the 38---all the colors of the rainbow mixed in with the egg yolk yellow! N-I-C-E!

 

Thank you David.

 

Yes the colors are a lot nicer in hand, especially the 1938s. I bought both of these coins raw. I grade the1938s an MS-66 + due to a couple of very tiny ticks on the obverse that are barely noticeable to the naked eye. IMO the 1953 is a MS-65+ coin. The jaw hit looks a lot worse in the photo and is trivial IMO. The hit on the collar, although small is noticeable, but it is really the only noteworthy mark on the coin. The reverses of both coins are mark free to the naked eye.

 

John

 

[TomB]

Devestating nickels, John! If you ever feel the need to "shed" some extra numismatic weight, you know where to find me!

 

As for toning, here are some tidbits, related to what has been written here, that I believe to be true based upon my experience-

 

The "hotspots" that have been mentioned are likely positions that have greater airflow. This allows quicker gas exchange, or turnover, and also brings in higher levels of humidity. The water vapor contained in air acts as a catalyst for most toning. So, you will typically find hotspots on the edges of albums where the slot has more chance for increased airflow. The outer corner spots give the best air exchange and may work best for toning, on average.

 

I agree with the point that having the slide cover the coin is likely more conducive to an overall toning scheme on the coin but I don't really think that "sublimation" is the correct term in this case. As we are all aware, sublimation is the process of a solid converting directly to a vapor without first becoming a liquid. As a case in point, iodine crystals will sublimate, as will dry ice (solid carbon dioxide). It's unlikely that any part of the toning process would typically involve sublimation. The likely scenario is that the more tightly enclosed environment would have a temporarily higher concentration of toning-causing ingredients and this would cause "toning deposition", for lack of a better phrase, all along the surface of the coin.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have any images of the one album that I still keep mint state coins in, however, I will describe it to you. I use a Whitman Classic album for an MS Roosevelt dime set. All the coins were frosty, original white when placed into the album. This was 1995-1997. The album is not complete, and was only built for the silver issues anyway. Nearly every coin has golden patches across it, and these patches are more heavily pronounced on the obverses. Some coins have vivid, electric blue near the rims. Two coins are turning into stunning monsters. The coins are, in general, lightly toned. So, why are the obverses more heavily toned? I think they are more heavily toned because nearly every coin is pushed into an album from the obverse. This would disrupt the layer of cardboard that later rests enclosed on the obverse side only, while the cardboard that rests enclosed on the reverse side is likely somewhat compressed. The contaminants released from this fraying of the cardboard will be fine, particulate matter that will eventually lay across the obverse. Additionally, acid residue will slowly leach from the cardboard to the edge of the coin, thereby causing peripheral toning.

 

The other MS set that I kept in a Whitman Classic holder was a silver Washington quarter set and these coins had light, golden-blue halos on them primarily on the obverse. They have since been removed from the holder.

[Hoot]

I agree with the point that having the slide cover the coin is likely more conducive to an overall toning scheme on the coin but I don't really think that "sublimation" is the correct term in this case. As we are all aware, sublimation is the process of a solid converting directly to a vapor without first becoming a liquid. As a case in point, iodine crystals will sublimate, as will dry ice (solid carbon dioxide). It's unlikely that any part of the toning process would typically involve sublimation. The likely scenario is that the more tightly enclosed environment would have a temporarily higher concentration of toning-causing ingredients and this would cause "toning deposition", for lack of a better phrase, all along the surface of the coin.

 

I used the term to describe the emission of constituents like sulfates or sulfides from the paper matrix to gaseous form, so I don't think its such a bad use of the word.

 

Hoot

[spy88]

Mark, I understand the "enclosed environment" with using the slides, but I am constantly eyeballing them all AND upgrading and the sliders just get in the way of a good view, especially when I use my 10X mag. Have just left them all out for quite some time, but again, as I am always going thru the pages (I took them out of the hardcover), they are constantly being stacked one on top of the other (gingerly!) and always in a different order. I think THIS is the

main reason why mine are toning as well as they have without the slides in place. The stacking acts as the enclosed environment.

 

Of course, who's to say that the coins weren't fated to tone on their own regardless of the album? I certainly do not know the lineage of every raw Jeff in my album, and it is quite possible that any toning contaminants came with the coin BEFORE I put them in! Just now hit me !

 

 

[jtryka]

Well, I have to apologize since I got home last night and was all set to post photos, but then AT&T wouldn't let me connect to the internet, so no photos. I can say that the toning seems most pronounced on the first page particularly on the top and bottom 2 rows. In the center, there is some very mild toning with a golden color on some, but most were white. I'll try again to post tonight if I can connect.

[EVillageProwler]

Just want to say that I think this is an excellent thread. Cool pictures, cool discourse. Very intellectual; very refreshing. Indeed!

 

I'm gonna pretend that I understood everything that the two science PhD's wrote. Now, the real question is: what will Iwog say about all this?

 

BTW, I bought an old WR album with dollar-sized holes. But, I don't have any raw dollars to put into 'em. I should've bought the type one instead. And, I think I should look in on my Dansco albums in the near future to see how the coins are faring.

 

EVP

 

[jtryka]

Ok, first let me say that I have absolutely no talent for capturing toning in photos, but for my Jeffersons, here are four of the most pronounced toned coins. Now keep in mind that my set is mixed as most of these I collected from change as a kid, with the exception of a few keys. Of the other unc coins, many are toned a golden color, most are still white, including all the BU Silver ones So take a look and get a sense at what my album did over 15 years or so.

 

 

As one minor point of clarification to make up for my sad photo skills, the last picture of the 47-D, it looks on the obverse as though there are some patchy areas of white on the collar and face, but in reality, it's somewhat of a lighting bolt pattern of electric blue that did not show up in the photo.

[EZ_E]

Most all of my coins that I had collected as a kid from the '70's have been lost or stolen since but I still have a near complete collection of circulated Jefferson's (with a few BU examples) that have been housed in a Whitman album with sliding windows for almost 25 years. There is absolutely no album toning on them whatsoever. That sux! I noticed some very nice pictures above from album toning. That tells me that environment is the main factor in decent toning, even more so than the album.

[Wihlborg]

Very nice Jeff. I especially like your 1947d.

 

John

 

[jtryka]

Thanks John, that coin has a really unique appearance in person, it is actually more of a reddish purple with the lightning on the obverse, the reverse is odd, at some angles it has that electric blue color, at other angles it's lavendar, then there is the rainbow on the edge. The reverse of the 38 is very similar, though the rainbow isn't as pronounced or concentrated.

[Hoot]

Great nicks Jeff! That 38 is super sweet to me!

 

Hoot

[spy88]

jt, I think you did a FINE job of capturing the toning on your Jeffs, and they are georgous! I am in love with your 38 and the 47! Exceptional eye appeal on ALL but these two really make me drool!

 

Gonna have to start wearing a bib before I login and see you guys pics!

 

David

[jtryka]

OK, here is one more, this one is in a 1988 proof set, so I had the challenge of the colors and the plastic case in taking these pictures, I hope you can see the coloring all right!

 

 

[jom]

That one somewhat reminds me of my Jeff in that special 1994 Jeff set except yours is farther along with the blue tints. I just checked that the other day and the reverse (which is the side that has toned) really hasn't changed much since I bought it but the silver dollar (to my great suprise) is starting to tone. Odd that...I don't think I've ever had a silver coin tone that was in my possession.

 

jom