• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.


This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

look at me, i am so pretty!! love me, want me, shower me with kisses or not LOL

13 posts in this topic

1861 copper nickel cent ngc ms65 with neat toning and a medium thick somewhat crunchy skin underneath the toning and solid for the grade


any 1861 in gem and higher mintstate is uncommon with great eye appeal


as most of the 1861 copper nickel cents even in gem mintstate are coins that are dark, weakly struck, not much lustre and too stained/spotty along with improper alloy mixture which causes streaks...........just plain ugly


***the key with any 1861 cent is "EYE APPEAL"***


the coin was photographed in a florescent light so in person "sight seen" the blue-grey color on the right side obverse and all of the reverse in the scan looks off silvery with a light tannish hue with strong cartwheel lustre in person "SIGHT SEEN"


of course the photography still can't reproduce what the eye can see but it is close with the left obverse side rainbow


this coin is also fully struck and great eye appeal and in this combination uncommon and even moreso with this obverse rainbow flamed.gif color! 893applaud-thumb.gif




a totally original medium toned light crunchy skinned gem mintstate copper nickel cent


and this coin needs to be seen in person as the scan barely does justice to the coin but this is all we got flowerred.gif


sweet devil.gif


michael shy.gif




Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holy Smokes! shocked.gif That's about the prettiest copper-nickel cent I have ever seen! The obverse color is quite unusual for this metal combination and the reverse, even if more silvery in hand, is really wonderful. The strike also looks superb, almost as if it were a medal. smile.gif


I have one question about the coin, is there some crud or residue on the obverse near UNITED? It looks as though something may have been removed. If that is the case, do you think that the toning might be due somewhat to whatever was there? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks guys i can why i like it on these boards!


tom you ask a very interesting question and i love it!!


the coin is totally original but the problem is with these scans you really need to see the coin in person sight seen and then you will totally understand it


there is really no residue well there is 27_laughing.gif water residue like when you take the dried dishes out of the dish washer water residue but not noticeable unless you look into the coin you got a good eye tom!

a patch of where water had been on the coin combined with heat and many decades! and it is interesting that this is what caused the toning


now the nickel 12% gives this coin a kind of off silvery look with a light tannish hue and the toning sits well rainbow on the coin the nickel in the coin reacts and makes these colors if this coin was after 1864 this would not really happen like this with these colors


now the three cent nickels you see sometimes with better deeper rainbow toning than this coin but the three cent nickel looks more silvery twice the amount of m=nickel in it then the CN indian cent so it tones better and the three cent nickel is 75% copper and 25% nickel same with the lib nicks too 75% copper 25% nickel


so they really look silvery and that is why you do see more to die for monster rainbow carnival colored coins but still rare on the lib nicks and three cent nicks and even monster rarer on the CN indian cents and also ms to boot wow


usually the monster colors are on the proof lib nicks and three cent nicks


i hate to use the word rare kind of like dealers that call all of their coins undergraded super high end lol it sounds not true even though it might be 27_laughing.gif but you use it all the time and many who do notunderstand this and cant see the coin in person go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 27_laughing.gif




this copper nickel indian head centagain is really monster rare with these colors now if you look at the coin carefully in person you see this liquid residue like you suggested and this was water that got on the coin


let me surmise for a moment i have seen a boone ms67 star coin that has a monster arc rainbow ring of color just like this indian head cent but the silver coin and this boone being in a old sulfur album and with the arc because of the being pushed into the album at an angle as you know hard to push these coins into the albums straight just like the pcgs/ngc coins you see at an angle same thing the arc creats this and helps this toning too ! but of course the toning on the silver coin more pronounced and again the album got wet hence the attic theory and also heat with the wet makes this a slow process over many decades i am sure it can be articifically accelrated but the boone was superb gem of course a collector would pick a monster great looking gem bu coin with eye appeal even 50 100 years ago eye appeal is always in style the most important of a coin!


this coin 1861 CN cent business strike has the arc and this is because it was pushed into an album wayte raymond/meghrig/national at an angle in the late 1920's early 30's or so and with this arc it toned this way and also again what really made this coin this color was as you know heat and water i am not chemist or very smart but after studying this and seeing this and specializing in this for many many years


as a kid seeing all the old albums of collectors where they just put them in the attic 27_laughing.gif well i am sure i will gewt flsmed for this attic theory 27_laughing.gifflamed.gifflamed.gifflamed.gif


it just makes sence to me based on what i have seen with my eyes i mean i can educated guess that this coin was put into an album and like all old valuables/ keepsakes collected when their worth was not great they did not put them in the basement but in the attic in the east where it is monster cold in the winter all the roofs leak and hot and really humid in the summer water/sweating combined with the heat and partical nickel in the coin and all the right circumstances get this color are there others out there yes! BUT NOT MANY devil.gifthumbsup2.gifdevil.gifflowerred.gif


you really need to see this coin in person tom and i can show you coins from this eastern collection that are like this and in person it makes sense if you see the coins and with your smarts and understanding of toning based on your experiences it is quite a sight to see


the problem is this coin is monster rare and should be worth ten times bid

but they are so rare like this that not only does no one see it they do not know it exists and so why look for it if it is rare and you do not know it is out there


and then no supply how can you have any demand with no supply even if you know they are out there?? you get one for as toned type set??makes sense to me 27_laughing.gif


besides the fact again you never see or even know these coins exist


well back to my story 27_laughing.gif well this coin as you know pushed in these albums are a pain in the to push in and was in at an angle i have seen this before with other us coins and then eventually the peoson gets old grows up in the attic it goes where the edge of the album for whatever reason gets wet and all the right things in the right places the water


as you cAN SEE FROM THE top of the united to the rim gets wet then it sits just right as the arc being at an angle in the holder the water reacts with the coin to give it this beautiful color AND AS YOU COMMENTED TOM YOU SEE THIS RESIDUE WATER RESIDUE!! (((i hope to show you this one day tome in person and other coins so you can see what i am talking about))) over many many decades and then in the summer all the heat in the attic well it makes the coin tone beautiful again by rare chance and with no spots or stians rare as such! man i am really educated guessing here i am going to get flamed lolflamed.gif


now it is easy to assume 27_laughing.gif well educated guess as this coin is full struck and monster lustre but as you know 1861 was a horded date and even into the 1950;s bags of 200 300 500 of1861 cents came out and even the two ms67 and one ms 68 1861 cents came from a horde 20 or so years ago now most are weakly struck or ugly and 95% grade under ms65 but a few graded higher


well 1861 is the easiest cent to get as a type coin and also looking great well the coin is like a metal and fully struck monster lustre and wondetrful surfaces so it as you so astutely point out tom


the collector thast put this coin away thought so too that is why he bought it 75 or so years ago


seems to me most available the 1861 and also a superlative coin to boot


the collector got this coin and selected it as it was available and fantastic strike the perfect coin he carefully put this coin in the album as it was an somewhat available coin i am sure back in the 20's but superlative example well all the right plavces and circumstances and walia a neat toned coin



yes the residue again was water and as you know with this look well if you know what you are looking at with experience a coin can tell you where it has been and waht happened to it not exactly but you can put the pieces of the puzzle together and it all fits and makes sense except for the names dates and places 27_laughing.gif i guess if i could do that i would not be here 27_laughing.gif


and also a full gem me coin and fully struck like you say as a medal even with no toning it is an exceptional really uncommon coin as such


the key with 1861 is 893applaud-thumb.gif eye appeal 893applaud-thumb.gif most all in albums never got wet or heat combo with all the right things being in the right places and are either weakly struck and just look ugly all brown crappy tannish dark brown no life and just ugly


i was not surpirsed and it made sence to me that someone really put away a choice example in a sulfer album and again the water and heat combo along with gem surfaces and monster lustre and full strike created a really rare coin




again tom if you saw this coin in person you would see exactly what i am talking about it all comes together with this coin


and makes sence but it took me 35years to get where i can see and understand this based on my experiences hands on not any book learning or phd chemical smarts not important but fun.................


i guess i am just a crazy collector a lwgend in my own mind

i am sure there are others out there but man if you look for one you might find one in a few years of looking at hindreds of not thousands of coins 27_laughing.gif



michael shy.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Michael, your knowledge level is incredible! Great nuggets of truth in your post. Five stars, baby! thumbsup2.gif Thanks for sharing. No, I mean it ... thanks for sharing, literally! There's a spot in my type album for that little Indian . grin.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

michael, beautiful coin! Just a question concerning the denticles, tho.


Some appear to be filled in or bridged together especially at the 6 oclock areas both obverse and reverse. Is this just a matter of the scan?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

spy you are very astute and you see something i never noticed


yes !it is the scan

the denticles in person are totally fully struck and separated inperson the coin looks extremely deeply impressed 100% totally fully struck and also i noticed the diamonds did not show up on the scan too and the 4 diamonds are fully impressed in fact sight seen the coin you do not even need a magnifying glass to examine the coin under a good light sourse it just stands out





Link to comment
Share on other sites

WOW. Darned fine coin and thanks for sharing. Don't sell yourself short, you may not be a chemist but you are way smart and know your coins.


I agree here. You just come up with one beautiful coin after another. You're taste is amazing and you must have some great resources at your disposal. I envy your capabilities, both tangible and intangible. thumbsup2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thanks dave and robert!


it is always good to hear more positive things on this board from REAL collectors who like to talk about the nuances of coins


and not someone constantly trying to promote or push something they just "made" that increases its value 25x 50x 100x 250x 500x all because of the holder and registry





Link to comment
Share on other sites



first I would like to say thats a beautiful coin!!!


Second, I would like to thank you for all the info you provided. I am a relatively new collector and just love reading stuff like this. You are an asset to the board and I look forward to reading more stuff like this from you and other collectors here.




Link to comment
Share on other sites