MS-66 sold for $16K, then was CACed, and then sold ... for half price?

[James_OldeTowne]

I found this 1928-D Standing Liberty quarter situation very weird. It sold for $16,100 here on 8/8/2007. The exact same description of the exact same coin and slab, but now with a sticker showed up here on 1/7/2008, seventeen months later, only this time it sold for just $8,625!?

 

What gives ?

[jgrinz]

[Schatzy]

 

What gives ?

 

I think this is a perfect example of 2 people fighting over a coin.

The one person that was bidding against him must have changed his mind later or

decided not to bid or didn't know the coin was relisted!!

[MarkFeld]

I found this 1928-D Standing Liberty quarter situation very weird. It sold for $16,100 here on 8/8/2007. The exact same description of the exact same coin and slab, but now with a sticker showed up here on 1/7/2008, a mere five months later, only this time it sold for just $8,625!?

 

What gives ?

James, "what gives" is that you are incorrect. The second sale was January of this year, not last year. So we're talking about a difference of 17 months, not 5 months, and a much different world/coin market.

[MarkFeld]

I wonder if you would have that reaction if you suffered that type of loss?

[James_OldeTowne]

James, "what gives" is that you are incorrect. The second sale was January of this year, not last year. So we're talking about a difference of 17 months, not 5 months, and a much different world/coin market.

Mark, thanks for the correct, which I have edited into my opening post. My apologies!

 

You would say that the value of this coin crashed by 50% due to a downturn in the market? Is this the type of crash we should expect to see with other coins in the market? (I hadn't personally noticed that type of dramatic deflation in coin values.)

[WinstonWare]

Yeah that one has got to sting a little bit. I tell you though, I haven't done any better in the market than losing half over the last 17 months

[MarkFeld]

James, "what gives" is that you are incorrect. The second sale was January of this year, not last year. So we're talking about a difference of 17 months, not 5 months, and a much different world/coin market.

Mark, thanks for the correct, which I have edited into my opening post. My apologies!

 

You would say that the value of this coin crashed by 50% due to a downturn in the market? Is this the type of crash we should expect to see with other coins in the market? (I hadn't personally noticed that type of dramatic deflation in coin values.)

James, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but you are incorrect again. The difference in price wasn't 50% - it was 46.4% That aside, my guess is that the drop in price was due to a combination of the original winning bidder having paid too much AND a weaker market when the coin was sold again.

[rrantique]

Yeah that one has got to sting a little bit. I tell you though, I haven't done any better in the market than losing half over the last 17 months

 

Yep, my stock is in the toilet too Winston.

[jesbroken]

James--FYI

It looks like 2007 was the year to sell the MS66FH LSQ, for on 5-12-2007 one sold for $18,400 and then the one you saw on 8-12-2007 for $16,100. In 2008 on Jan, 12 another MS66FH NGC(which was CAC) sold for only a mere $3,450, which was only 5 months after the huge sale in August 2007 and only 8 months after the even larger sale in May 2007. Then on 1-11-2009 one sold for $2,300 in NGC MS66FH besides the one you noted on 1-07-2009 for $8,600. Some crazy bidding going on for this coin. I can't speak for 2007 or 2008 but Numismedia currently lists this coin at $8560 and PCGS at $13,500, again quite a difference. Easy for collectors to be confused as to a coin's value, while I would hope people bidding at this level would be more aware of the coins value than to depend upon Numismedia and certainly not PCGS.

Jim

[RareSov]

What have I said about inflated prices on US coins...

 

I prefer the moderns. Inflated prices for 70s which often deserve it, easy to buy.. easy to sell.. not really going to lose either when buying carefully ! haven't yet.. doing quite well

[just-john]

Auction 1121, Lot 3826 Sunday, January 11, 2009 66 PCGS $8,625.00

Auction 434, Lot 593 Saturday, May 12, 2007 66 PCGS $18,400.00 *******

Auction 1121, Lot 2704 Sunday, January 11, 2009 66 NGC $2,300.00

Auction 454, Lot 1300 Saturday, January 12, 2008 66 NGC $3,450.00

Auction 27032, Lot 11243 Tuesday, March 13, 2007 66 NGC $3,593.75 *******

To me the SLQ were being over hyped-what with a mintage of 1,627,600 and a 2007 Blue Book list the coin in ms-63 at $140.00 now this was a MS-66 beauty but 18 grand think the bidder was caught up in the auction

The march 13 2007 ms66 NGC going for $3593.75. To me the buyer still $5000.00 HIGH or their real big PCGS fans

When you look a nickels-d 1928 minted 6,436,000 Dimes 1928-d 4,161,000 and their prices in MS66

I just hope if anyboard member who auctions off their coin's that the room if filled with these types of bidders 2:40am going to sleep now

[jgrinz]

I wonder if you would have that reaction if you suffered that type of loss?

 

 

I would not have put myself in that position in the first place especially on the merits of a football sticker attached to a piece of plastic.

 

 

[MarkFeld]

I wonder if you would have that reaction if you suffered that type of loss?

 

 

I would not have put myself in that position in the first place especially on the merits of a football sticker attached to a piece of plastic.

 

The buyer at the earlier/much higher price, who presumably lost a lot of money, didn't put himself in that position either, based on a sticker. The coin was stickered AFTER he bought it.

[MikeKing]

putting my coins up for auction this March, and seeing this, is more than scary.

But outside of my anxe, the coin is over-valued to start, the market is tremulous, and if there were one more bidder who wanted the coin, who knows what it might have been bid up to.

 

 

[jgrinz]

I wonder if you would have that reaction if you suffered that type of loss?

 

 

I would not have put myself in that position in the first place especially on the merits of a football sticker attached to a piece of plastic.

 

The buyer at the earlier/much higher price, who presumably lost a lot of money, didn't put himself in that position either, based on a sticker. The coin was stickered AFTER he bought it.

 

So would you not assume that HE ( The buyer at the high price ) got the football "expecting" to get a larger return on his investment because of it

This is what I read into it and he LOST BIG.

 

Unless I am interpretaing the data incorrectly which does happen on occaision

 

[xJack]

I'm wondering if the first price paid was in hopes of an upgrade to a 67, and the football sticker was an attempt at the consolation "prize" after it didn't upgrade?

[okbustchaser]

I wonder if you would have that reaction if you suffered that type of loss?

 

 

I would not have put myself in that position in the first place especially on the merits of a football sticker attached to a piece of plastic.

 

 

But, would you have put yourself in that position in the first place based on the merits of a piece of paper stuck into that piece of plastic? If so, where is the difference?

[James_OldeTowne]

So would you not assume that HE ( The buyer at the high price ) got the football "expecting" to get a larger return on his investment because of it

This is what I read into it and he LOST BIG.

That was my interpretation as well of the events that transpired.

[MarkFeld]

I wonder if you would have that reaction if you suffered that type of loss?

 

 

I would not have put myself in that position in the first place especially on the merits of a football sticker attached to a piece of plastic.

 

The buyer at the earlier/much higher price, who presumably lost a lot of money, didn't put himself in that position either, based on a sticker. The coin was stickered AFTER he bought it.

 

So would you not assume that HE ( The buyer at the high price ) got the football "expecting" to get a larger return on his investment because of it

This is what I read into it and he LOST BIG.

 

Unless I am interpretaing the data incorrectly which does happen on occaision

No, I would not make that assumption. And you have, in effect, made fun of someone for losing a lot of money, based on an assumption that might very well be incorrect.

[Conder101]

I think this is a perfect example of 2 people fighting over a coin.

The one person that was bidding against him must have changed his mind later or

decided not to bid or didn't know the coin was relisted!!

Another possibility

 

At the first sale there were two people both saying "I GOTTA HAVE IT" and one won. Seventeen months later when it sold again the second "I GOTTA HAVE IT" guy was there, but his only competition was an "I'd really like to have it" guy. Once "I GOTTA HAVE IT" beat "I'd like to have it" there was no one else to keep pushing the price up and he got it at almost half what it would have cost him before. I've seen this happen several times in the EAC field. There used to be a group that specialized in terminal die stage pieces. And over a series of auction you would see the same terminal state piece be sold at auctionas one sold off his collection and they were fought over by the others and each time they brought new record prices. Bu when the next to the last guy in the group sold off his collection ther was only one terminal stage fanatic left to bid on them and he got them at a tiny fraction of what they had cost the other guy

[jgrinz]

I think this is a perfect example of 2 people fighting over a coin.

The one person that was bidding against him must have changed his mind later or

decided not to bid or didn't know the coin was relisted!!

Another possibility

 

At the first sale there were two people both saying "I GOTTA HAVE IT" and one won. Seventeen months later when it sold again the second "I GOTTA HAVE IT" guy was there, but his only competition was an "I'd really like to have it" guy. Once "I GOTTA HAVE IT" beat "I'd like to have it" there was no one else to keep pushing the price up and he got it at almost half what it would have cost him before. I've seen this happen several times in the EAC field. There used to be a group that specialized in terminal die stage pieces. And over a series of auction you would see the same terminal state piece be sold at auctionas one sold off his collection and they were fought over by the others and each time they brought new record prices. Bu when the next to the last guy in the group sold off his collection ther was only one terminal stage fanatic left to bid on them and he got them at a tiny fraction of what they had cost the other guy

 

Good points there conder101 -

...

Mark ... as argumentative as ever I see but you do have a small point there

as I would not want someone laughing at a mistake or possible mistake that I had made. Also point taken

 

(Your points are much sharper than conder101's why is that ... )

 

 

 

[Conder101]

I jab gently

[Houston Investor]

It all goes to show what hype there is in rare coins. I believe he would have done so much better putting that in AGE's. I have no doubt the economy played a role. Looks like somebody needed some money. Also it could be due to timing and a bid war on the $16 k price and lack of one on the last price. If thats the same guy buying it at $16 k then letting it go for around $9 k either he really needed money or he must be a real lu lu to let himself get ripped like that. A case in point why one needs a reserve.

 

I try to stay clear of big ticket coins that may tie up my funds for a long time. When you get in a bind and need money and try to sell you could be looking at a big loss. Whether the Bay or TTR I always list the coin with a reserve or shill bid (TTR).

 

One thing I like about Teletrade is you can put in your own secret bid / reserve and all you are out is a buyers fee if you happen to win it because no one was bidding that nite. I love their raw coin service because no grading fees up front. Then when the auction comes you can bid up the ones you might want to keep with your secret bid and let the others just rip. At Teletrade they don't know who they are bidding against whether some rabid collector or the seller. Wish Ebay was that way.

[MarkFeld]

If thats the same guy buying it at $16 k then letting it go for around $9 k either he really needed money or he must be a real lu lu to let himself get ripped like that. A case in point why one needs a reserve.

My guess is that if he got "ripped" it was when he bought it, not that it necessarily brought too little when he sold it.