Enviromental damage..... new image added after dipping

[toyonakataro]

Sorry, this is not a U.S coin, but I decided to post here.

 

I bought this japanese coin from a local dealer and when I bought it, the dealer said, "Could have been a nice coin had it been stored properly"

The coin exhibit pastel rainbow color on obverse(dragon side) and quite deep toning(?) on the peripherial area of reverse while the reverse center is white.

I think the coin had PL surface judging from the white central area of the reverse whitch is not rare for the issue.

 

I sent the coin to NGC and came back enviromental damage.

Berore I sent it to NGC,I was afraid it might come back as AT or cleaned(I see light, but many hairlines on the reverse white area), but never thought about "enviromental damage" because I don't know what it exactly means to begin with

 

I would like to know what kind of damage has been done on my coin.

And do you think it's curable if I sent it to NCS?

[RI AL]

The numerous hairlines on the reverse around the central figures would scream "damage" in my mind...maybe the begining of a crude cleaning. I wouldn't think that NCS could "fix" that...but I'm not sure I see the "environmental damage". What am I missing? As a "damaged" example of Japan Y-25.3 or Y-38 (I can't determine which type it is as I can' read the Japanese), in either event, I don't think it is worth the shipping, insurance and expense to have it certified or conserved.

 

RI AL

[coinman1794]

This coin looks both AT and cleaned, to me. The hairlines are irreversable, the toning might be removable.

[Conder101]

YA25.2 Year 17 (1884)

 

I don't think the damage can be "cured" the coin is hairlined and I don't think they like the toning. The toning could be removed but it would make the hairlining even more noticeable and probably wouldn't help the color either.

[RI AL]

WHAT...you read Japanese too??? What CAN'T you do???

 

Impressed Ri AL

[physics-fan3.14]

WHAT...you read Japanese too??? What CAN'T you do???

 

Impressed Ri AL

 

What he's not telling you is all the thousands of hours he's spent at the hibachi grill trying to figure out the menu.

 

My brother is learning Japanese, so for his birthday last year I took him to a Japanese restaurant in Charleston. I was sort of hoping he would start talking Japanese to the dudes making dinner, but he was too chicken.

[MarkFeld]

My guess is that the the term "environmental damage" was used because certain darker/stained areas of the toning have etched into the surfaces of the coin. If that is the case, while those areas could likely be lightened, that would not restore the actual damage to the surfaces and the coin might end up looking odd/unnatural.

[RI AL]

WHAT...you read Japanese too??? What CAN'T you do???

 

Impressed Ri AL

 

What he's not telling you is all the thousands of hours he's spent at the hibachi grill trying to figure out the menu.

 

My brother is learning Japanese, so for his birthday last year I took him to a Japanese restaurant in Charleston. I was sort of hoping he would start talking Japanese to the dudes making dinner, but he was too chicken.

 

So THAT'S why his eyebrows are all singed, huh??

[toyonakataro]

My guess is that the the term "environmental damage" was used because certain darker/stained areas of the toning have etched into the surfaces of the coin. If that is the case, while those areas could likely be lightened, that would not restore the actual damage to the surfaces and the coin might end up looking odd/unnatural.

 

 

Scince the called it "enviromental damage" instead of calling it AT or cleaning, I tend to agree with your guess, but do you know where/what I should see to determine if the "toning" on a coin has already gone too far to etch into the surface?

 

Is there a telltale sign whitch separate deep toning from damage?

[MarkFeld]

My guess is that the the term "environmental damage" was used because certain darker/stained areas of the toning have etched into the surfaces of the coin. If that is the case, while those areas could likely be lightened, that would not restore the actual damage to the surfaces and the coin might end up looking odd/unnatural.

 

 

Scince the called it "enviromental damage" instead of calling it AT or cleaning, I tend to agree with your guess, but do you know where/what I should see to determine if the "toning" on a coin has already gone too far to etch into the surface?

 

Is there a telltale sign whitch separate deep toning from damage?

Taro, check the darkest areas first. My guess is that you wont see luster beneath them and that the surfaces of the coin will look very dull and possibly rough. By the way, sometimes it is just as difficult to decide whether to body-bag a coin or not, as it is to decide what grade to assign - it is a judgment call and not always a consistent one.

[toyonakataro]

Taro, check the darkest areas first. My guess is that you wont see luster beneath them and that the surfaces of the coin will look very dull and possibly rough

As you guessed, I don't see luster beneath the dark area and the area looks very dull although it doesn't look rough on surface.

Thank you for your opinion on this coin.

Maybe I'll send the coin to PCGS to get in their genuine holder someday.

[michael]

Enviromental damage.....is it curable?

 

usually most all of the time

 

NO

[toyonakataro]

 

I dipped the coin although Mark told me not to

 

As Mark suggested, dipping show more hailines on the deeply toned area, but I don't see the "damage" on the coin other than cleaned.

[MarkFeld]

Taro, now that you have dipped the coin and have shown us before and after images, you have provided an excellent example of environmental damage. On the new images, look at how most of the areas that were deeply toned are now a light/hazy color but not bright silver like the centers of the coin - that discoloration is the result of the etching of the toning into the surface of the coin - the environmental damage.

 

That is what I meant when in my previous post I wrote " If that is the case, while those areas could likely be lightened, that would not restore the actual damage to the surfaces and the coin might end up looking odd/unnatural." If the coin did not have environmental damage, the toning would have dipped off without leaving those stained/unnatural looking areas.

[toyonakataro]

Mark, after I read your comment above, I dipped the coin again.

 

I thought the hazy area was due to insufficient dip, but I was wrong.

 

After dipping twice, the color on the hazy area became somehow light, but they still remained.

 

Now I think I learned what the enviromental damege is, but it was an expensive lesson

[MarkFeld]

Mark, after I read your comment above, I dipped the coin again.

 

I thought the hazy area was due to insufficient dip, but I was wrong.

 

After dipping twice, the color on the hazy area became somehow light, but they still remained.

 

Now I think I learned what the enviromental damege is, but it was an expensive lesson

Sorry, Taro. The good news is that the more toned coins you dip, the better you will become at guessing or knowing how they will look afterwards. I don't dip coins, so I am not nearly as good at knowing that as many other people are.

[MarkFeld]

Hi Taro,

 

If you can, it might be good to change your environmental damage thread title and say, "new images added after dipping" or something like that. It is a good/helpful thread!

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[toyonakataro]

I edited the title as you suggested, Mark.

 

This was the first time I dipped a coin.........and I have to admit it was a bit fun

[MarkFeld]

I edited the title as you suggested, Mark.

 

This was the first time I dipped a coin.........and I have to admit it was a bit fun

I hope it wasn't TOO fun Taro - some people can't stop, once they start.

[Schatzy]

Taro......Thanks for posting!! Very educational!! Sorry about your lose!!

[ant]

i have found if you do a water and dip mix to lighten it it will work much slower and not so acidy. if you keep dipping you will get more haze on the parts showing coin and there will be tiny pocks started.

 

different dip does different things. dipping is only for a second. if you let sit it will be like a penny in coke cola.