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Gobrecht in PF-10 - How Much?

Started by xJack,

21 posts in this topic

xJack

xJack

Posted
Posted

I haven't been around in awhile, just been real busy and not focusing on the collection too much. Lurking once in a while, following the UHR threads, but fairly inactive.

 

So after my hiatus, I must turn to the community for a quandry that I can't seem to get to the bottom of.

 

I've been offered an 1836 J-60 Gobrecht Silver Dollar, PCGS PF-10. I've never seen one this low in grade that wasn't cleaned, scratched, etc... Coin is stone original with no marks or damage, just looks to be nicely circ with no cleaning.

 

I've searched my entire library of auction catalogs, online archives, etc. By my count, this is far scarcer than most of the Gobrecht's out there simply because it is a lower grade circ. I can't find *ANY* pricing information to see if I'm being offered a fair price.

 

Any thoughts or price history? Thanks in advance, would love to acquire this since it's the only grade Gobrecht I can afford, but don't want to pay moon money for it since it's at the bottom of the big-boy ladder.

 

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TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

I own a PCGS PF10 J-60 Gobrecht that is also completely original and you will find no auction data, which I am aware of, for this issue. At one time I thought my coin was the only one certified by PCGS as PF10, but there has either been another certified or someone may be trying to sell my coin. hm My coin is below-

J1836P10.jpg

J1836P10R.jpg

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MarkFeld

MarkFeld

Posted
Posted

Below are some Heritage prices realized for low grade offerings. My gut feel (and that's all it is) is that it is about a $6000-7000 item - what are you being quoted on it?

 

Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR4 March 16, 1999 $2,415.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 8587 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.1--... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR4 June 5, 2004 $2,357.50

(Mail/Fax)

Click for larger image 3703 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.1--Plugged, Tooled, Cleaned--ANACS. Fine Details, Net PR 4. Silver.... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR4 September 24, 2005 $3,105.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 1641 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.1--Plugged, Tooled, Whizzed--ANACS. Fine Details, Net PR4. Silver. ... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR4 March 4, 2006 $3,105.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 21522 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.1--Plugged, Repaired--NCS. Circ. Proof. Silver. Plain Edge. Die Ali... [Open item in a new window.] Signature NCS PR8 January 28, 2006 $3,680.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 7169 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR8 October 6, 2001 $1,725.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 8190 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.2, ... [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR8 July 30, 2003 $4,255.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 6445 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR10 August 11, 2001 $4,140.00

(Internet)

5478 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 Gobrecht Dollar VG 10 Repaired, Cleaned. Name on Base.... [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified VG10 October 10, 1995 $1,870.00

(Live: Floor)

5479 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR12 October 10, 1995 $2,750.00

(Live: Floor)

5538 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR12 August 20, 1996 $2,970.00

(Internet)

5600 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR12 June 4, 1996 $2,750.00

(Internet)

Click for larger image 5317 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR12 January 10, 2000 $2,760.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 7966 Gobrecht Dollars

1839 PS$1 Name Omitted, Judd-104 Original, Pollock-116, R.6-... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR12 March 1, 2003 $3,910.00

(Internet)

Click for larger image 3704 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.5--Graffiti--ANACS. VF Details, Net PR 12. Die Alignment IV. Plain ... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR12 September 24, 2005 $4,025.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 6267 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.2-3,... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR12 January 31, 2004 $6,900.00

(Internet)

Click for larger image 1182 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.1--Repaired, Cleaned--ANACS. Fine 15 Details.... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR15 July 13, 2007 $5,462.50

(Internet)

5320 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 Gobrecht Dollar Fine 15 Cleaned. Judd-60, Original, R.1. T... [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified F15 February 15, 1999 $2,760.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 1361 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.1--Repaired, Cleaned--ANACS. Fine 15 Details.... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR15 April 19, 2008 $6,900.00

(Live: Phone)

Click for larger image 955 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 $1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original--Repaired--NCS. Proof, VF Details.... [Open item in a new window.] Signature NCS PR20 November 7, 2007 $9,775.00

(Live: Phone)

Click for larger image 2427 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Restrike, Pollock-65, R.5--Holed--NCS. VF Detail.... [Open item in a new window.] Signature NCS PR20 September 21, 2008 $3,737.50

(Live: Phone)

5499 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR20 January 11, 1999 $6,037.50

(Live: Floor)

5375 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR20 January 13, 1998 $2,472.50

(Live: Floor)

6692 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR20 June 7, 1995 $3,630.00

(Live: Floor)

Click for larger image 7281 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 PS$1 J-60ORG [Open item in a new window.] Signature Uncertified PR20 January 12, 2002 $7,762.50

(Internet)

Click for larger image 3721 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.1--Repaired--ANACS. VF20 Details. Silver. Plain Edge. Die Alignment... [Open item in a new window.] Signature ANACS PR20 August 14, 2006 $4,025.00

(Internet)

Click for larger image 1092 Gobrecht Dollars

1836 P$1 Name on Base, Judd-60 Original, Pollock-65, R.1, PR25 PCGS. Silver. Plain Edge. Die Alignment I. Original Issue o... [Open item in a new window.] Signature PCGS PR25 November 30, 2006 $10,637.50

(Live: Floor)

 

 

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TomB

TomB

Posted
Posted

Just to clear something up, which I had not mentioned earlier, is that PCGS denotes the obverse-reverse orientation for this issue on their holders. Therefore, some of these coins are struck with medal orientation and others with coin orientation. My piece is the only one struck with medal orientation that is graded PF10 by PCGS, though their data reports show five coins at this grade level with coin orientation. Most likely, the coin offered has coin orientation.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
I've been offered an 1836 J-60 Gobrecht Silver Dollar, PCGS PF-10. I've never seen one this low in grade that wasn't cleaned, scratched, etc... Coin is stone original with no marks or damage, just looks to be nicely circ with no cleaning.

Personally, this is one issue for which I would prefer a cleaned or possibly inoffensively damaged coin with a higher details grade. Why? Because it's a design that really needs plenty of remaining detail to be fully appreciated, in my opinion. In other words, you could get a fully original, VG-10 that is flat and lacks significant details, or (possibly) find a F-15 to VF-20 that has been cleaned or polished, but provides substantially "more to look at".

 

In other words, it's a coin for which I am willing to trade off original character in exchange for superior detail. I am not able to afford both.

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World Colonial

World Colonial

Posted
Posted

I do not have my Judd reference book with me, so I cannot remember which reference numbers are scarcer than the others. And I also know that this is a popular coin but I would not expect that there are that many collectors who are trying to collect all or most them. If this is a correct assumption, $6000 to $7000 seems a very steep price for an impaired proof given the total number of specimens in existence, especially for one in such a low grade.

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xJack

xJack

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Thanks to all for your input, it sheds a lot of light on this coin for me!

 

TomB, I was hoping you'd chime in, as I did see your PF-10 in the registry and hoped you'd impart some wisdom as an owner of a similar coin. The one I'm considering _is_ a coin-turn, so you don't need to be checking your safety deposit box. :)

 

Mark, thanks for the HA listings - that's where I turned first and just got confused when I tried to factor Net Graded coins from different years. I think some of the $2K level coins from the late 90's skewed my perception of the value downwards. I overlooked an ANACS PF-10 from 2001 that validates the price on this one.

 

James, while I see your point, I can't say I personally agree. I'm a coin "snob" in that regard - If I know a problem exists, then I have a tough time getting past that problem. Not that I haven't considered many rarities with minor cleaning or problems. I just tend to look for more nice-for-the-price coins that show some originality, even if it means dropping a grade. I have a friend who owns three examples in 50, 58, and 62 if I want to look them over and daydream.

 

This coin will fill a large hole in my Dollar Type set. I'm going to give it another look tomorrow with a fine tooth comb. If it looks as good now that the stars have gone out of my eyes, then I'm going to pick it up.

 

I'll try to post a pic either way. As for the price - let's just say $6-7k is a bit over my head right now. ;)

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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Posted
James, while I see your point, I can't say I personally agree. I'm a coin "snob" in that regard - If I know a problem exists, then I have a tough time getting past that problem.

But what you may want to keep in mind is that a Gobrecht dollar graded PF-10 does have a problem - a major one: too little detail.

 

Is lousy detail less of a problem than a mild cleaning?

 

Good luck enjoying whatever one you decide to buy! Just thought that a differing perspective might be interesting.

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TomB

TomB

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Posted
James, while I see your point, I can't say I personally agree. I'm a coin "snob" in that regard - If I know a problem exists, then I have a tough time getting past that problem.

But what you may want to keep in mind is that a Gobrecht dollar graded PF-10 does have a problem - a major one: too little detail.

 

Is lousy detail less of a problem than a mild cleaning?

 

Good luck enjoying whatever one you decide to buy! Just thought that a differing perspective might be interesting.

James, that's a personal choice about the perceived "problem". I would much rather have my PF10, imaged above, than have an AU50 details coin that was polished. The polished coin would make me want to vomit while my gorgeous PF10 is one of my favorite pieces. Obviously, you take the other view on this issue.

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

Posted
Posted
Give me a crusty, well circulated problem free coin anytime over a (much) higher graded problem coin.

Don't most collectors think this way too?

Most of the time, yes! And that goes for me, too. But for me, the Gobrecht dollar is one rare exception to that rule.

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xJack

xJack

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OK! I'm now the proud owner - it's a little softer than the TomB specimen, but I still like it!

 

I was able to talk the seller down some due to the slight weakness and a tiny scratch on the reverse that only shows at 10x under the correct angle.

 

GobrechtWeb1.jpg

 

GobrechtWeb2.jpg

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