Some recent Ebay sales, how the prices compared to my cost and a few thoughts..

[Schatzy]

Welcome to the forum coinblogger!!

[TomB]

Do you have an example of the images used to sell these coins? I ask because a coin with subpar images can get hammered in an ebay sale. Therefore, there may be more to your post than the current state of the market.

[Schatzy]

Do you have an example of the images used to sell these coins? I ask because a coin with subpar images can get hammered in an ebay sale. Therefore, there may be more to your post than the current state of the market.

 

Thats why I also asked Mark about the listing. I bought three of the same coins on eBay with crapy pictures and description. I paid $50-60 for each one. I sold one a week later for $250 and the other for $175. I decide to keep the best one.

[Mark T]

I would not have sold them without a reserve. If someone wants a coin bad enough they will bid up higher to test the reserve price.

 

No reserve coins usually sell better....people don't like testing to see what the reserve is. You will also miss out on those people that like to try and snipe auctions. I have see many coins sell for there reserve price and nothing more. If i see a auction that has a reserve I usually don't even watch it or bid on it.

 

True, but without a reserve you could sell something for a lot less then it is worth.

Maybe if you are a power seller and have a lot of people bidding on your auctions you can get away with a no reserve without much risk .

 

[Mark T]

Do you have an example of the images used to sell these coins? I ask because a coin with subpar images can get hammered in an ebay sale. Therefore, there may be more to your post than the current state of the market.

 

I saw the images, they looked good.

[Schatzy]

Here are the links to the auctions....I think the seller did a great job.

 

1916 Barber Dime PCGS MS64

 

1916 Barber Quarter PCGS MS-64

 

1831 Bust Half NGC AU-50

 

Norfolk NGC MS-67

[MarkFeld]

First off, thank you for the insight into the market. Not many dealers would be as forthright with that type of information, and frankly, that's why I respect you as much as I do.

 

Playing devil's advocate here...

 

My first reaction is that your sample set was chosen in such a way as to yield the result you arrived at -- after all they must not have been the best coins in your inventory to begin with if they didn't sell.

 

I probably paid too much for some of the coins at the time I acquired them.

 

I agree with all your points except the above one -- I have a great deal of trouble believing you overpaid, and it is likely the sample set along with a market headed downward that was the root cause of the losses you report, and not overpaying per-se.

 

Respectfully...Mike

Thank you Mike.

 

While the coins weren't my best ones, I don't know that there would have been any difference had I sold other items. Four of them were ones I had bought back from clients and paid more for than I otherwise would have - hence my comment about overpaying for some of them.

 

p.s. In order to understand just how good or bad things are, it would be helpful to understand your historical margins when liquidating stale inventory to eBay? (I realize that this may be a sensitive question and you may not want to respond -- and I can and do respect that, so please don't answer just because I asked.)

It's not a sensitive issue as far as I'm concerned, but I don't know the answer. And because I sell on Ebay so rarely (and usually in small quantities when I do), it would be more small samples and a nuisance to locate the records.

 

I am glad that I found this forum. What a great thread!! Thanks for sharing Mark.

Thank you too and welcome to the forum.

 

 

 

[lkenefic]

I agree, though I wasn't of the opinion that my coins were of the "low eye appeal, cleaned or other poo" variety.

 

You always have great looking coins.

Do you think that there was any other factors that resulted in the low sale prices.

(ex: pictures, length of auction, description, when the auction ended)

Thanks. I think the Ebay listings were fine and attribute the results to the current state of the market.

 

I think you're right. In general, I have a hard time believing that an MS64 Barber quarter would have "low eye appeal" although I'm sure there may be some exceptions. In particular, I've seen some of the pieces you've had for sale over the last few years and they certainly don't lack for eye appeal.

 

I think the current economic instability has found the coin market as well and has found it at all levels of collecting. Perhaps the only coin-related market doing well these days is bullion pieces and it's only doing well if you managed to buy pre-2005. I think the only reason bullion is still up is due to safe-haven buying rahter than intrinsic value and if/when the stock market finds the bottom metals will also return to somewhat less than historic values.

 

Sorry for your losses. You're certainly one of the "good guys" and I hope you weather the economic storm.

 

Best Regards,

 

Leo

[PCcoins]

The seller you used to sell your coins on ebay does do well with toned coins. But from what I've seen, it's the coins with neon toning that sells for moon money (and some are so wildly toned it's hard to tell AT from NT). And most of these monster toners, which I'm referring to are modern coins.

 

The coins you just sold look very nice and original. It's very hard to predict what a certain coin will sell for on ebay, because if the same coins were listed today they could sell for $100 more. (ebay's wierd like that)

 

It's definitely a buyers market right now, and it's gotta be hard for an honest coin dealer such as yourself. Seems like the jerk AT'ing coins is making a killing on ebay, while the hard searching honest dealer is getting hosed.

 

Just my

 

- Jon

[rrantique]

I am glad that I found this forum. What a great thread!! Thanks for sharing Mark.

 

Welcome coinblogger.

[RareSov]

Yeah the sad part is you KNOW Mark's coins were good stuff.

 

Yet people pay for junk, get ripped off by non senders, phished, hacked, their PayPal account emptied etc etc over on eBay. It would be a lot nicer hobby if everyone could just buy from a GOOD dealer (Mark, you sound like my ideal dealer and everyone elses too)

 

Things will come around. Those wasting their money on junk will be stung later

[michael]

mark an incredible thread with much to learn about the current state of the coin market thanks for being on the ngc boards (thumbs u

 

everything is down and it was only a matter of time before the coin market softened; the market will rebound but i think not until 2010+

[RareSov]

Not everything is down, listen to what Heritage have to say they had a video up after the FUN sale. Really stonking quality is still going up, along with rarities.. those hard to get pieces that people still want, or still are waiting for. There is still plenty of money with those buyers.

 

World coins I know it applies too, personal experience this time. There was a sale only a week ago with a favourite coin I have, exact same grade and rare, and it is up 20% (at auction, I purchased from a dealer about a year ago so it could be even higher% had I got it from an auction)

[ant]

I would not have sold them without a reserve. If someone wants a coin bad enough they will bid up higher to test the reserve price.

 

No reserve coins usually sell better....people don't like testing to see what the reserve is. You will also miss out on those people that like to try and snipe auctions. I have see many coins sell for there reserve price and nothing more. If i see a auction that has a reserve I usually don't even watch it or bid on it.

 

True, but without a reserve you could sell something for a lot less then it is worth.

Maybe if you are a power seller and have a lot of people bidding on your auctions you can get away with a no reserve without much risk .

 

there is also buy it now /w offer. list at your price and look at offers.

[RareSov]

That is my way these days, I was forced to list some stuff and ended up selling a few things, still at a good enough price. A couple I made good money on so eBay didn't take all my money this time.

[Jakeblue]

I recently had an interesting sale(right before the economy sank)on ebay. I had an 1880 CC PCGS MS 63. It was a really nice coin. I had a very reasonable BIN price for over two months. No takers. I also tried it with a reasonable reserve 7 day auction. It did not come close to the reserve. So, after a unrelated discussion with a Heritage sales rep, it was mentioned to me about a "PHD" study that found that folks will bid higher with a unreserved auction than a reserved or set price auction. So....I took it even a step farther...

 

I cracked her out of the PCGS slab, started it at .99 cents. 7 day auction.

 

That coin sold for $50 more than the BIN price I had on her for over two months. Maybe folks are always looking for that raw "find"?

 

Go figure. Will that always work? No. Recently, I have had some fall short slabbed and raw. Economy? That would be my guess. I have also been picking up some really nice deals. The pressure is driving down the prices as a whole.

 

It is a buyer's market.

 

[Schatzy]

started it at .99 cents. 7 day auction.

 

That coin sold for $50 more than the BIN price I had on her for over two months.

 

Go figure. Will that always work? No.

 

I have also done this a number of times and it usually works out in my favor. No reserve is the way to go.

[Mark T]

I would not have sold them without a reserve. If someone wants a coin bad enough they will bid up higher to test the reserve price.

 

No reserve coins usually sell better....people don't like testing to see what the reserve is. You will also miss out on those people that like to try and snipe auctions. I have see many coins sell for there reserve price and nothing more. If i see a auction that has a reserve I usually don't even watch it or bid on it.

 

True, but without a reserve you could sell something for a lot less then it is worth.

Maybe if you are a power seller and have a lot of people bidding on your auctions you can get away with a no reserve without much risk .

 

there is also buy it now /w offer. list at your price and look at offers.

 

I use the buy it now with offers on many of my auctions but the bidding is always very light. People don’t realize they can often get a great deal with this kind of auction . However they seem to think getting into a bidding war will somehow get them a better price .

 

 

 

 

[Dcoin]

Mark, this is going to sound like a weird question but, if you knew the outcome would you go this route again?

 

In other words, is the loss of $$ on these coins worth having the back some working capital?

 

[relicsncoins]

I'm conducting a small test now..............I'll post the results once the test is concluded.

 

JJ

[MarkFeld]

Mark, this is going to sound like a weird question but, if you knew the outcome would you go this route again?

 

In other words, is the loss of $$ on these coins worth having the back some working capital?

Great question! And I think my answer would be yes.

 

I say that, despite the fact that I didn't need to sell coins in order to have sufficient capital for new acquisitions. I always keep a relatively small inventory and don't need or use use financing. However, I believe in keeping my inventory fresh and turning it over, even though/when I don't need to raise cash. And hopefully I will be able to acquire new coins that I like at somewhat lower levels.

[Schatzy]

use the buy it now with offers on many of my auctions but the bidding is always very light. People don’t realize they can often get a great deal with this kind of auction . However they seem to think getting into a bidding war will somehow get them a better price .

 

Using Buy-It-Nows are often great for buyers, well at least in my mind.

I just don't think it great for sellers just because of the whole bidding war thing.

I often think people get caught up in the moment and end up bidding more then they wanted too.

I have seen many no reserve auction sell for more than a Buy-It-Now for the same coin in the same holder.

[wtc911coins]

Wow that is a big hit you took on those coins, but I do see the Ebay market being week right now

[RareSov]

Definitely, I hope it hurts them they are the ones making all the money

 

Listing $1 NR has always been great for lots of items but has the obvious downfalls. Ask yourself this, how many buyers will there be at around my price point. If it is a coin where people might not be looking for it, use B.I.N. with offer or the casual bidders will kill your bottom line

[MikeInFL]

Thank you Mike.

 

While the coins weren't my best ones, I don't know that there would have been any difference had I sold other items. Four of them were ones I had bought back from clients and paid more for than I otherwise would have - hence my comment about overpaying for some of them.

 

You are most welcome.

 

I understand what you mean now re:overpaying. Thanks for the explanation...Mike

[MikeInFL]

Here are the links to the auctions....I think the seller did a great job.

 

IMO, the pictures are OK. Certainly better than most eBay sellers. However, I would never have bid on his auctions because of the restocking charge:

 

7 day return from day received if item is returned in the unopened and undamaged holder in which it was shipped less the shipping and handling charges (including insurance charges if applicable) and subject to a 10% restocking fee.

 

Furthermore, I suspect that I am not alone in this hesitancy, and I wonder if the above terms aren't part of the reason why the results were poor.

 

Respectfully...Mike

[bsshog40]

Here are the links to the auctions....I think the seller did a great job.

 

IMO, the pictures are OK. Certainly better than most eBay sellers. However, I would never have bid on his auctions because of the restocking charge:

 

7 day return from day received if item is returned in the unopened and undamaged holder in which it was shipped less the shipping and handling charges (including insurance charges if applicable) and subject to a 10% restocking fee.

 

Furthermore, I suspect that I am not alone in this hesitancy, and I wonder if the above terms aren't part of the reason why the results were poor.

 

Respectfully...Mike

I hear ya. I can only imagine how hard it would be to open that drawer and set the coin back in it!

[TomB]

Here are the links to the auctions....I think the seller did a great job.

 

IMO, the pictures are OK. Certainly better than most eBay sellers. However, I would never have bid on his auctions because of the restocking charge:

 

7 day return from day received if item is returned in the unopened and undamaged holder in which it was shipped less the shipping and handling charges (including insurance charges if applicable) and subject to a 10% restocking fee.

 

Furthermore, I suspect that I am not alone in this hesitancy, and I wonder if the above terms aren't part of the reason why the results were poor.

 

Respectfully...Mike

Mike is entirely correct in his assumption that others might avoid this seller. D*ck is a friend of mine, but I would also avoid any auction with a restocking fee because I view such fees as a euphamism for "I will sell you misrepresented coinage or garbage coinage and will make my profit by keeping a portion of your refund when you are unhappy". I have mentioned this in the past to D*ck. Additionally, although D*ck attempts to bring out the colors on coins, he has a tendancy to list obviously edited images where the granularity or the color of the image appears to have been changed. This can be perfectly legitimate, but when combined with a restocking fee it can be a huge red flag.

[Great Toning]

I wanted to say that in 999 out of 1000 cases I don't charge a restocking fee. I say "subject to" just to let people know that my auctions are not approval auctions. If there is any other good way to get my point accross in this matter I would like your imput.

[Great Toning]

I would also like to add that prices are indeed softening which is not unexpected in this economic environment. The exception to the rule is the coins with extreme rarity or tremendous eye appeal.

Regards,

Richard

Great Toning LLC