Grade this 1886 Liberty nickel please!

[DSessom-migration]

Hello all,

 

I am new to this forum, but frequent other numismatic boards. I recently purchased an 1886 Liberty nickel that I feel is under graded. It is in an NGC slab, and for the most part, NGC grades pretty well. But everyone makes errors, and I believe this is one of those exceptions.

 

I have my own opinion on the grade, but wanted to get other opinions...

 

The scratches on the obverse photo are on the slab, by the way.

 

 

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

-Dwayne

[Brando]

VF25

[Mark T]

F-15

[Coindude]

Because it's a semi key I would think it would grade in the 20 to 25 area.

[michael]

a really nice eye appealling lower grade key coin

 

i grade this coin fine 14

 

it is better than fine 12 but not quite 15

[coinman1794]

I want to call it F-15, but the rim is so sharp and the reverse detail seems to be quite bold as well. Grading by the sharpness of LIBERTY is inaccurate at best, and I would call this VF20 or 25.

[lehigh96]

F15

[DSessom-migration]

I just wanted to confirm what I thought by getting unbiased opinions.

 

I believe it is about F15. My 1912-S is an NGC F15 and the details on this 1886 in general are stronger. The 1912-S does have a bolder LIBERTY on the tierra, but all other details (Hair, date, reverse details in the wreath) are stronger on this 86.

 

Anyway, this coin resides in an NGC VG10 holder and it's going for regrade!

[Mark T]

I believe they gave the coin a VG 10 because the “I” in the Liberty was weak and barely visible. I think you will have a decent shot at an upgrade to F12 – 15 however remember that the grading services have become tight lately.

[DSessom-migration]

I agree. But I have seen F12's that the "I" is completely gone but the rest of LIBERTY is there. I would be happy with F12, but it surely doesn't deserve a VG10 slab.

[Brando]

hmm well i guess I was generous with the VF25 but I just cant see a coin with that sharp of a reverse and rims still intact in a VG holder...hmm o well

[RI AL]

I'm going for VG 10. I could understand the VG 10 because of that darned "I". Just a bit more of it visible and it would go for F-12. So close.

[DSessom-migration]

The "I" doesn't have to be sharp for an F12 grade. It is there, although weak. Given the strong details other wise, and since it's the 2nd from top key in the series, I think it actually should go F15.

 

Let me put this into perspective...

 

I have an NGC F15 1912-S in this same set. I will put them side by side:

 

 

 

See what I mean?

 

[RI AL]

The difference between the coins seems pretty small, I must admit. I like to check my grading books for fun when questions like this come up, and to be a F-12, the I must be clear. Seems a bit silly to me, though in your second picture, the I is clear (1912?) whereas in the first it is not.

Picky, picky, picky.

 

RI al

[BillJones]

Because it's a semi key I would think it would grade in the 20 to 25 area.

 

Please don't fall into that trap. The fact that this coin is a semi-key date in a series DOES NOT LOWER the grading standards. Some oold time dealers (and sadly the grading services from time to time), who were less than honest, used to do that; and it's wrong.

 

You pay high prices for better date coins. You don't get nailed twice with an inflated grade and a high price because the date is better.

 

So far as I'm concerned the 1886 nickel is a very nice Fine-12.

[WoodenJefferson]

Technically, going by all the indicators, rims, denticles, LIBERTY, overall wear characteristics you might get a F-12, but unfortunately, your going to get back another VG-10 grade.

 

It just has that Very Good look to it rather than that Fine look…if the graders can look past this you’ll get what you want, but it just does not have that “pizzazz” of a fine grade. It’s sitting there on the cusp of F, but falls back into VG status.

 

I know it’s not right and I feel for you…but you cannot improve the looks of a coin taken out of a some what heavy state of circulation.

[DSessom-migration]

Actually, in hand it looks far better than any of my Fine grade and even approaching VF. The only thing holding this coin back is the weak "I" on the tierra, but it is visable.

 

Here is a great grading guide for Liberty nickels and other Barber coins as well.

 

http://www.barbercoins.org/Grading-LN.html

 

"Fine (F 12). On the front, all of the letters of LIBERTY will be visible, but some of the letters may be very weak (most often the "I"). Some of the hair will be showing. On the back, some detail on the wreath will begin to show."

 

[James_OldeTowne]

When it comes to strike quality, the 1886 is no slouch (nor is the 1885). They are usually well struck, therefore I am at F-12 on this coin. If this were a 1909 for example, which is often softly struck, a F-15 might be possible.

 

VG-10 seems a little conservative to me, but by old-time standards, it would be correct given only six letters of LIBERTY.

[Coin]

Having just gotten two of my Liberty nickels back from NGC , I'd feel safe to say it was undergraded . It meets the 'qualifyers' for the Fine grade , and it does have enough hair detail . I'd have a re-grade if it were mine . I believe NGC is starting to get over the fear of the CAC stickering and bickering and getting back to grading and calling it like it is , at least they were very dead-on with my last batch of semi-keys I sent in . It is valuable enough to at least warrant the trouble and expense versus a non-key .

Good luck with it.

[RI AL]

When it comes to strike quality, the 1886 is no slouch (nor is the 1885). They are usually well struck, therefore I am at F-12 on this coin. If this were a 1909 for example, which is often softly struck, a F-15 might be possible.

 

VG-10 seems a little conservative to me, but by old-time standards, it would be correct given only six letters of LIBERTY.

 

And to me, here is the RUB. JamesEarly US pointed it out beautifully in his quote above. As best as I understand it, the TPG's do NOT account for quality of strike when they assign a grade to a coin. Actually, for them to do so would be an impossible task. I think it would be a tremendous service if each year/strike quality WAS taken into consideration by the TPGs, even for an additional fee, but I don't anticipate that happening. Do guidelines even exist for all types and all years and the quality of strike?

 

In an earlier post I learned from several guys here (the topic was my 1795 dollar)that in early U.S. coins, strike quality varied considerably but of course, this is not reflected on the slab. As a type collector, I would LOVE to know which issues are known for weak strikes because I bet I could find some real bargains in slabbed coins that are graded by "the standard"(...whatever that is...it seems to change a bit from time to time) that technically are higher in grade because of strike issues.

All I have to go on is my growing collection of "grading books" and considerable learning from reading here on the BB. I believe that my skills are improving a bit.

 

Back to the Liberty nickel with the I worn away, it's clearly a VG according to the books. Now, if I knew that that year was known for weak strikes, then perhaps I would comfortably call it a Fine. I guess the question becomes at time of resale, the slab says VG, how many people have the skill or knowledge that it really is a Fine because it is a weakly struck year??? Not me...yet.

 

It's all a bit much for my head...I understand the concept...but see no way to consistently apply it.

 

Now...WHAT did I just say??

[DSessom-migration]

Haha. I feel just like you do sometimes, and I am constantly learning all the time.

My real beef with this particular coin, is that the "I" is not completely gone. Even in these low quality photos, it can be seen. It is very weak, but still there. And aside from the weak (but not missing) "I" in LIBERTY, this coin has detail that surpass most other coins in the Fine category that I own. Being a key in the series, I am going to send it in for regrade. It has details bordering on VF both obverse and reverse. The "I" is weak though, so I would be happy with a net grade of F12.

[Coinfiender-migration]

I'd have guessed Fine 15 lightly cleaned or wiped