1799/8 Draped Bust Dollar NGC MS-63 (Ebay Fraud?)

[physics-fan3.14]

 

I believe that you need to be logged in to a Collector's Society account in order to be able to do so. HOWEVER there are many counterfeit grading labels and holders out there, so the fact that a search indicates that such a coin exists doesn't mean the one in question is genuine.

 

Good argument for the new photo-verification. Easy to make a slab with the right coin in it. Hard to make a slab with the right coin in it that also looks exactly the same tick and spot for spot and tick.

[MarkFeld]

Thanks, Mark and Physics. The slab number is legit...which I guess doesn't mean a whole heck of a lot.

 

E-Bay has been notified.

You should have placed Physics' name before mine, since he replied first.

 

I have a number of complaints with Ebay, but in this case I don't see how they could fairly take any action against the seller at this point. There is no proof that the coin is counterfeit or stolen or even that the seller has misappropriated images from another source. I would bet it's a scam, but can't prove it.

[RI AL]

Well, I thought that Pay-Pal Buyer Protection might step in here if the coin turns out to be fake. WRONG. To quote policy:

 

"Eligible transactions are covered

PayPal protects you when you don't receive an eBay item you've bought, or if an item you've received is significantly different than it was described."

 

No where in the listing does it say that the coin is genuine, so this would be a case of "you get what you pay for". The seller did answer my e-mailed question in the affirmative, that he would guaranty the authenticity of the coin, but what good would that do the winner of the auction? He (seller) elected not to post my question nor his reply as part of the description.

 

Mark, you're right. I should have listed Physics first in my last post...RI AL...hanging head

 

 

[physics-fan3.14]

 

Mark, you're right. I should have listed Physics first in my last post...RI AL...hanging head

 

 

Haha, I certainly don't care. Heck, I'm just glad to have been mentioned in teh same sentence as Mark. It does me a great honor

[RI AL]

Hey, Physics.

 

Does that mean I'm forgiven???

[prudden]

Wooden Jefferson.

 

Good observation there. I didn't notice the MS 63 and "circulated" designation.

I see the bidding is up to $3000 this morning. This gets more interesting by the minute...

 

That doesn't necessarily mean anything.I've seen sellers do this hundreds of times,even with slabbed MS coins. I have no idea why they do it.

[relicsncoins]

Wooden Jefferson.

 

Good observation there. I didn't notice the MS 63 and "circulated" designation.

I see the bidding is up to $3000 this morning. This gets more interesting by the minute...

 

That doesn't necessarily mean anything.I've seen sellers do this hundreds of times,even with slabbed MS coins. I have no idea why they do it.

 

It's simple, at least in every case where the seller has sold before. Many times when I go to sell, I will just click on the sell simmilar, and sometimes you forget to change something that's already filled in.

 

JJ

[awb]

I have a number of complaints with Ebay, but in this case I don't see how they could fairly take any action against the seller at this point. There is no proof that the coin is counterfeit or stolen or even that the seller has misappropriated images from another source. I would bet it's a scam, but can't prove it.

 

Hear hear. Caveat emptor. Only a fool would buy this coin under these circumstances and hope to get the real thing.

[Toad]

Hey Ri Al,

 

A member of the CFE Group has been conversing with the seller via email and made him an offer of 8G and the seller accepted it plus provided a bank account to do a wire transfer, which wasn't a valid account at the bank he said it was going to, so the plot has thickened even more. Now, there have been a few more peeps notified of this situation since it is looking stranger by the minute.

 

Ribbit

[Toad]

I agree Mark, it sure looks like a scam, even smells like a scam, but darnit, I can't prove it. That's why I came here with it because we were also stumped on CFE and I figured this was the best place to post it for finding out more on it, but this little boogher is proving difficult.

 

BTW - seller claims he got it from his grandmother and his English is slightly broken.

 

Ribbit

[rrantique]

I agree Mark, it sure looks like a scam, even smells like a scam, but darnit, I can't prove it. That's why I came here with it because we were also stumped on CFE and I figured this was the best place to post it for finding out more on it, but this little boogher is proving difficult.

 

BTW - seller claims he got it from his grandmother and his English is slightly broken.

 

Ribbit

 

 

Did you asked what country Grandma came from?

[dean1345]

All I can say is if you bid high on that Draped Bust Dollar you have got large nads.

[EZ_E]

 

 

All I can say is if you bid high on that Draped Bust Dollar you have got large nads.

 

Or no brain!

[Toad]

The listing has been removed and the seller has been NARU'd.

 

Ribbit

[RI AL]

OK...showing my ignorance again, what is CFE and NARU'd? I got the "big nads" part...a frequent expression of endearment at the high school...

[Toad]

CFE = Coin Fraud Ebay group.

NARU = Not A Registered User (got banned from Ebay)

 

Ribbit

[RI AL]

Thanks, toad!!

[Toad]

Update:

 

The seller has relisted:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-1799-8-1-Draped-Bust-Silver-Dollar_W0QQitemZ250358579328

 

I believe someone I know has bid on it, using a credit card thru PayPal for double protection, so as to uncover the scam. Then he will provide the evidence to Ebay/PayPal afterwards so maybe they will start listening to us.

 

It is getting easier for peeps to run scams on Ebay and harder for the legit sellers to sell and turn a profit!

 

I will post updates as they occur.

 

Ribbit

[RI AL]

This seller is one heck of a determined son of a

Looking forward to the next chapter...

[prudden]

This seller is one heck of a determined son of a

Looking forward to the next chapter...

 

Next Chapter.The coin sold for $5500.00. The buyer got free shipping thrown in. Think he'll ever see a coin?

[dean1345]

Nope.

[Toad]

Next Chapter.The coin sold for $5500.00. The buyer got free shipping thrown in. Think he'll ever see a coin?

 

Now to wait and see if feedback is left.

 

Pass the popcorn!

 

Ribbit

[RI AL]

Amazing! Well, I guess here's an example of buying "sight-seen"...sort of through E-Bay...is actually stupider than sight unseen. If the guy has it authenticated and it comes back as a copy (duh), what recourse does he have? Does E-Bay insurance or PayPal coverage protect this buyer...(if he gets a coin at all)?

[Toad]

Knowing Pay-MeMore-Pal, they will wiggle out of it somehow. They remind me of health insurance providers.

 

Ribbit

[prudden]

Amazing! Well, I guess here's an example of buying "sight-seen"...sort of through E-Bay...is actually stupider than sight unseen. If the guy has it authenticated and it comes back as a copy (duh), what recourse does he have? Does E-Bay insurance or PayPal coverage protect this buyer...(if he gets a coin at all)?

 

I vote no delivery of coin. The guy will get his money back.eventually. So says Carnack.

[RI AL]

Please keep us informed. I would really like to follow this one through.

 

Ri AL

[dean1345]

Well the winning bidder negged the seller. Here was his comments," WARNING* This guy is definitely a scammer!!! Absolutely Do not buy from him"! Who would have guessed it!

[Toad]

After we got the seller NARU'd and Ebay resurrected them, we figured they could take the hit. Now we are waiting for the rest of the story from the buyer.

 

Ribbit

 

Ps: Seller sold a 50G Rolex after the coin, so he is on a roll.