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Finally! She's mine, all mine! 1795 Original half dollar

Started by EZ_E,

56 posts in this topic

EZ_E

EZ_E

Posted
Posted

This fair sister is mine, all mine. :)

 

Finally, this girl is mine, all mine! It has taken me two years to find the perfect coin for me and my set. Yet, it hasn't been an easy road but patience has paid off in the long run. I tried negotiating for the coin for weeks and finally struck the right chord with the ebay seller: Liquid Bullion Coin And Collectilbes (lbcac). His price was $3,000, pretty steep but was adamant in his price. I was able to negotiate a trade: my 1860/1 PCGS MS64 half dime and $1600 cash for this fair sister. In the long run, one can never go wrong paying strong money for the right coin because that means that it will always be the right coin for future generations. I had purchased the half dime undesignated from NHRC a couple of 2 or 3 years ago as a NGC63. It was recently upgraded and designated by PCGS turning my $250 into something much more. So, a net price of $1850 for this coin is quiet the bargain, me thinketh. And......$1275 of that cash came from the sell of a 1927-S Peace dollar that I had paid $350. It too was upgraded. Both coins are nice and solid so I didn't rip anyone but the net gain was mine. So after the math I paid $250 + $350 + $375 + $40 grading fees = $1015 for this beautiful coin!

 

*************************

1795 HALF DOLLAR

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Mintage:

Circulation strikes: 299,680

Proofs: none

 

Designer: Robert Scot

 

Diameter: ±32.5 millimeters

 

Metal content:

Silver - 89.2%

Copper - 10.8%

 

Weight: ±208 grains (±13.5 grams)

 

Edge: Lettered - FIFTY CENTS OR HALF A DOLLAR (various ornaments between words)

 

Mintmark: None (all dates of this type were struck at Philadelphia)

71845.jpg.83fabd3804218cf65061f9cfde569f2c.jpg

71846.jpg.216d7ce3393148de317782b2a42a4c3b.jpg

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realone

realone

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Congrads, you went from a f'd up 1860/1 half dime to a wonderful early 50cer. The 1861/0 isn't even what it is supposed to be, go to the LSCC and you will learn that is is falsely designated and given the premium, and you bought it unattributed and got big money. Wow, you made out great I assume with a dealer who only lives by the Redbook and doesn't research bubkis. Congrads, I'd say you scored big time, beautufil early piece love the look!!!!!!!

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RI AL

RI AL

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And a mighty fine looking lady too!!! Congrats. (Oh oh...I think I hear RI AL whipping out his Overton to check the variety!!)

 

RI AL

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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The 1861/0 isn't even what it is supposed to be, go to the LSCC and you will learn that is is falsely designated and given the premium,

 

Interesting, I want to learn more! You have a link? Tried to google LSCC but I doubt that we're talking semiconductors here. ;)

 

Thanks for the comments, guys. And I know that if I get the TomB thumbs up then I'm doing something right! WWTBD? is a good motto to follow. :grin:

 

p.s. It looks that I may have an assignment potential in Washington state! Very cool! WA and NV are my favorite states, partly because there is no state income tax. I think that there was some divine intervention goin' on 'cause I was contemplating going to a darn yankee state! :o

 

Actually, I wouldn't mind working in CT for a spell since TomB and Mike King both live there. Both are fine gents and friends so I think it would be an enjoyable time. Maybe I could take some speech classes so that I could blend in better. My Okie accent is still there even though I haven't lived in OK since 1984. :þ

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RI AL

RI AL

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Overton 102 I believe. R-5. "Rare" at the time of publication of Overton 3rd edition 1990. 31-80 known.

 

Very nice, original looking coin!!!

 

RI AL

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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Overton 102 I believe. R-5. "Rare" at the time of publication of Overton 3rd edition 1990. 31-80 known.

 

Very nice, original looking coin!!!

 

 

RI AL

 

 

If that's true then cool! What are the diagnostics?

 

p.s. It's a done deal, just don't have the coin in hand yet.

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TomB

TomB

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Posted
Overton 102 I believe. R-5. "Rare" at the time of publication of Overton 3rd edition 1990. 31-80 known.

 

Very nice, original looking coin!!!

 

 

RI AL

 

 

If that's true then cool! What are the diagnostics?

 

p.s. It's a done deal, just don't have the coin in hand yet.

The distribution of berries on the reverse of this die marriage is unique among the 1795 half dollar issues.

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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Overton 102 I believe. R-5. "Rare" at the time of publication of Overton 3rd edition 1990. 31-80 known.

 

Very nice, original looking coin!!!

 

 

RI AL

 

 

If that's true then cool! What are the diagnostics?

 

p.s. It's a done deal, just don't have the coin in hand yet.

 

Hey, Victor! I tried to tell you the variety, but you didn't want to hear it! :juggle:

 

This coin is blatantly undergraded. First, the eagle, more often than not, is flatly struck. Detail in the wreath and sharpness on the lettering around the rims is what you need to look at. Many of the leaves are split, but considerable wear shows, and there is weakness toward the rims. Now, the hair detail can be missleading. This obverse hub style, used roughly from O-101 to 107, if I recall, seems to retain more hair detail than many others because the central hair is more sheilded from wear than on most others, and that can throw people off sometimes. Many low grade examples still have almost as much detail in the hair as this coin. Thus, to grade it properly, you have to look for sharpness of the other features. Notice the flat upper head and facial feature, and the softness toward the rims. BLAH BLAH....

 

To make a long story short, this coin should grade F-12, for the O-102.

 

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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Thanks for the add'l info, Douglas! Well, when you were about to attribute it before it was after my rant about Overton varieties this and that and I'd seem the hypocrite to seem interested in it afterwards. Besides, it was still iffy if I would be getting the coin. So, there! :P

 

;)

 

Hey, bud. I'm gonna to cut and paste your info for my registry set. O'tay?

 

And, thanks for the info! I think that you are most under appreciated on the boards for the depths of your knowledge and experience! I truly appreciate what I've learned from you! (thumbs u

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SkyMan

SkyMan

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That's a Lovely looking babe Victor!!! :golfclap: (I'm not sure I can call her a lady as she's not a virgin). ;) Let's hear it for oldies but goodies! (thumbs u I hope she takes you for a long and enjoyable ride...

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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That's a Lovely looking babe Victor!!! :golfclap: (I'm not sure I can call her a lady as she's not a virgin). ;) Let's hear it for oldies but goodies! (thumbs u I hope she takes you for a long and enjoyable ride...

 

That's a classic quote!

 

And, um, let's keep it on the down low if I do decide to take the soiled dove for a ride. ;)

 

I am a very happily married man after all. :acclaim:

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RI AL

RI AL

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coinman1794

Very interesting post about EZ-E's beauty of a 1795 half. DO the graders in fact take strike into consideration when assessing the grade? If anyone can jump in here and help me out witht these questions, I'd be most appreciative.

 

I am attaching photos of my 1795 half, O-108 I THINK it's 108 though the top point of the 5 is different than in Overton's picture.) It is NGC F-12 and to be perfectly honest, I don't see much more in the way of detail on mine than on EZ-E's. Perhaps there is a bit more hair detail but the reverses look essentially the same. Using my superior (?) grading skills, lol ....based on 4 different grading books, I would give my coin a VG-10 at best, mainly because of the lack of essentially any detail in the feathers on the eagle.

 

So, EZ-E has a really nice example that is known for its weakness of strike, though this was apparently not taken into consideration by the graders. Would you know if weakness of strike is indicitive of the O-108 as well?

 

These comments regarding the Flowing Hair Half Dollars are interesting from 4 grading books:

 

ANA book, "Examples of this design are often weakly struck, particularly on the eagle's breast and feathers".

 

Grading Coins by Photographs, " On any half dollar of this era, knowledge of the varieties and pecularities of striking is useful". {Gee...THAT'S helpful!!?} I am having some trouble warming up to this book.

 

Photograde, "The breast feathers were usually weakly struck on this series".

 

Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, "Flowing Hair half dollars suffer from the same striking weaknesses as the Flowing Hair half dimes, but fewer coins are affected and the area of weakness is smaller in proportion to their sizes".

 

I guess what I am asking is HOW does one know which varieties are weakly struck, and HOW MUCH adjustment to the grade is appropriate because of the striking issues??? If attribution services were requested at the time of certification, is it possible that the "attributer" would take strike into consideration and suggest that the coin be graded accordingly?? Is there a reference guide that discusses strike quality of each variety?

 

Many questions, but all comments would be really appreciated. My slab is slightly munched so please excuse nicks, cracks, scratches and bullet holes ;) RI AL

 

1795half001-1.jpg

1795half002-1.jpg

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EZ_E

EZ_E

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Al, I'm certainly no expert like coinman but it looks like your example has a pretty sweet strike, sans the breast feathers. The lettering on both sides are quiet bold and sharp. It appears that NGC did take its strike into consideration when they graded it. A very nice piece.... &*%$#& it! Send it to me! hehe..... Who does that sound like? :grin:

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coinman1794

coinman1794

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coinman1794

Very interesting post about EZ-E's beauty of a 1795 half. DO the graders in fact take strike into consideration when assessing the grade? If anyone can jump in here and help me out witht these questions, I'd be most appreciative.

 

I am attaching photos of my 1795 half, O-108 I THINK it's 108 though the top point of the 5 is different than in Overton's picture.) It is NGC F-12 and to be perfectly honest, I don't see much more in the way of detail on mine than on EZ-E's. Perhaps there is a bit more hair detail but the reverses look essentially the same. Using my superior (?) grading skills, lol ....based on 4 different grading books, I would give my coin a VG-10 at best, mainly because of the lack of essentially any detail in the feathers on the eagle.

 

So, EZ-E has a really nice example that is known for its weakness of strike, though this was apparently not taken into consideration by the graders. Would you know if weakness of strike is indicitive of the O-108 as well?

 

These comments regarding the Flowing Hair Half Dollars are interesting from 4 grading books:

 

ANA book, "Examples of this design are often weakly struck, particularly on the eagle's breast and feathers".

 

Grading Coins by Photographs, " On any half dollar of this era, knowledge of the varieties and pecularities of striking is useful". {Gee...THAT'S helpful!!?} I am having some trouble warming up to this book.

 

Photograde, "The breast feathers were usually weakly struck on this series".

 

Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection, "Flowing Hair half dollars suffer from the same striking weaknesses as the Flowing Hair half dimes, but fewer coins are affected and the area of weakness is smaller in proportion to their sizes".

 

I guess what I am asking is HOW does one know which varieties are weakly struck, and HOW MUCH adjustment to the grade is appropriate because of the striking issues??? If attribution services were requested at the time of certification, is it possible that the "attributer" would take strike into consideration and suggest that the coin be graded accordingly?? Is there a reference guide that discusses strike quality of each variety?

 

Many questions, but all comments would be really appreciated. My slab is slightly munched so please excuse nicks, cracks, scratches and bullet holes ;) RI AL

 

1795half001-1.jpg

1795half002-1.jpg

 

1) No, rarely do the graders spend enough time on early US (or any open collar issues) to get the grade just right. Further, you wont learn the nuances of each variety by reading overton, you have to look at tons of examples to get a feel for what tended to happened with each die variety. The graders are in the perfect possition to gain this knowledge...yet here we are. The way PCGS used to grade these (I think it's a green label?), I'm not at all surprised with VG10. However, they have significantly loosened on early stuff in the last 6 months, and NGC has tightened to the point of grading just like PCGS used too! lol The best chance for Vic's coin is to resubmit to PCGS...at this particular point in time.

 

2) Your coin is VF20-25 in my book, without any hesitation. Grading guides are useless for Flowing Hair halves. It's typical for the graders to miss the mark on these, but not usually by that much. There aren't any hidden problems are there? If not then read on: Each variety that used a slightly different hub design wears differently. The shape of the head and contour of the feautures on your O-108 is markedly different than on Vic's O-102. The 102 almost never gets worn on the hair strands toward the neck, and it also keeps a nice split between neck and hair, going up past the ear, even in low grades. On a lower grade 108, you would not have as much seperation. Further, look how sharp, unworn, and well rounded the border dentiles and letters are on your 108, then compare to Victor's well worn rims and letters (Sure, uneven striking can affect this area, but it looks like wear in this case). Also look at the detail on the eye and how your forhead is not heavily flattened like Vic's (or her forhead ;)) Again, you cannot grade by detail, rather by the amount of wear.

 

3) Generally, strike weakness is not supposed to affect grade. The problem comes when you can't tell the difference. On well circulated coins, you cant tell for sure when weak strike ends and wear begins. Thus, if you know the variety well enough, you can expect where the weak strike might appear, and look for evidence of it in that spot. On VF30 and up, you can use luster as a guide, but on a VF20, or a F-12-15, you may have a weakly struck coin that has just a minimal amount of wear over flatly struck high points, making it seem like its a low grade coin. Once you know what you are looking at, it's just a matter of judging how much of the coins original mint appearance has been lost. Its still an art, though doh!

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