RYK's 2009 FUN Show Report

[DirtyGoldMan]

(this was posted ATS, but I will add some details re: CAC that I chose not to post there)

 

I will not bore you with the details of my breakfast on Wednesday morning (a decaf soy latte and bagel), my travel (Civic Hybrid to the airport, American Airlines to Orlando, Danny the Cab Driver to the Peabody Hotel), who I sat next to on the plane (an empty middle seat), the weather (stormy as I arrived, but cleared up quickly) but suffice to say, the trip to Orlando was uneventful.

 

I checked into my room and went off to the convention center for the FUN Show. I arrived at about 12:30P, and lot viewing was quite crowded. I had some difficulty getting the pattern boxes, and while I was waiting, our own pattern expert, Andy Lustig (aka MrEureka) sat down next to me. Then, I saw the trio of SaintGuru, Steve Duckor (whom I had never before met, but I know he reads the forum--"Hi, Steve"), and David Akers. I was surrounded by numismatic royalty (and so was SaintGuru ).

 

We were all viewing our respective lots and at one point, Mr. Akers was making quite a fuss about a coin. I had to ask what it was, and he was waxing prolific about the 1815 half eagle, which he handed to me. He apparently owned the coin one time in the past, and clearly, it was one of his favorites. He explained that while there was some rub on the high points, the fields and surfaces were pristine, and the coin was indeed uncirculated. I did not know this, but he next told us that the design of the 1813-1815 half eagles was a little higher in relief than the later dates, and that this coin did not suffer from the ills of circulation but instead from classic cabinet friction, as it is well documented how the Garrett's stored their coins. We all agreed that the coin transcended the holder, that it would be a great one to own, and, in fact, it could easily be someone's one coin collection. We all got schooled.

 

Out of the corner of my eye, I saw TahoeDale, went over to say hello, thought I would catch up with him later, but never got to do so. This actually happenned a lot at the show.

 

I bought an early bird badge for $90 (saw Pistareen in line and looked for him the rest of the show but never saw him again )and entered the bourse exactly at 2:30P with all of the dealers. It was very anti-climactic to walk on to a bourse where no one and nothing are set up, so I quickly reversed course and went back to lot viewing, had a snack, etc.

 

Lot viewing was typical, but perhaps I am crankier or not quite in the mood for coins, but I thought that there were a lot more schlocky coins than usual. It made me happy to have the coins that I have and not the ones on the market. Some of the Leemus patterns were exceptional, others pedestrian, and some downright fugly. I picked the coin that would be my main target, a couple possible back-ups, and returned to the bourse.

 

During auction lot viewing, it became very clear to me that, as a group, CAC-stickered coins were indeed better than non-stickered. Sure, there were plenty of CAC coins that that were dipped or not especially attractive, but if you took a random group of 20 CAC coins and a random group of 20 non-CAC, I guarantee you would have liked the CAC coins better, for what they are.

 

I first went to the CRO table where Dave had already stood on the most rickety chair and hung the banners before I arrived, depriving me the privilege of witnessing the comical event first hand. I handed John a few coins that I planned to sell, looked at a few of the coins that they had out, and left them. I went right to Doug Winter's table, which was proudly displaying his new Charlotte gold book (not yet available), which was very impressive. While he certainly has a formula to the southern gold books, he continues to tweak them, and they get better every time. He also had a nice selection of new Charlotte coins for sale, but, regrettably, these are outside my current interests.

 

That day, I really did not see much that caught my interest, but did inquire on prices for a couple possibilities (mainly Wreath cents and 1795 half dimes), and I thought that the pricing was rather strong and did not reflect any consideration of a softer coin market. I did stop by BillJones table, and when I was there, he was busy with a customer. He did not seem to have much on display, and I never made it back.

 

After a couple hours of wandering an assembling bourse, I made contact with IGWT and made arrangements to meet him at the auction. We sat across from Boiler78 and Lakesammman (who I met for the first time at this show), and we all watched Laura outbid us for the better coins in the sale. As it turns out, the coin I wanted, the Washlady quarter pattern in red sold for about twice what I would have paid. The bargains were in the relatively mundane coins, but, truth be told, who would want them anyway?

 

After about 90 minutes and relatively slow progress, IGWT and I scooted out and went for dinner at the hotel restaurant at the Peabody.

 

The next morning (Thursday), I ran into Newmismatist and FooDude in the hotel lobby, and shared a ride over to the convention center with them. I helped Greg set up his table when MadMarty wandered over and broke out some very interesting and beautiful medals but no chicken . I left them to return to the bourse and alternated between the bourse, the Heritage viewing room, and the Heritage Legacy Suite, over the course of the day. I was looking for a relatively problem free VF Wreath Cent and did not find one that suited me. I was also looking for a circulated 1795 half dime, but the ones I saw were either ugly, too expensive, or both. I also looked at a couple Bechtler dollars and did not like any of them.

 

My first and only real purchase was the stunning 1914 $5 in PCGS XF-45 from CRO. XF-45 is my favorite grade, and while most Indian circulated gold is ugly, this coin was quite charming. I opened the wallet and made the purchase. I would have never guessed that this would be my marquee purchase from the FUN show.

 

As I hinted on the other thread, at one point, I heard some gossip behind one dealer's table (regarding slander and lawsuits and the like--but not involving Cameron as one on the other thread suggested), and he was oblivious to the fact that I had a relationship with the person he was talking about. As he went on and on, I continued to feign interest in his coins, so that I could deliver as much information to my friend as possible. This has always been amusing to me--some of the dealer talk behind the table that goes on as if the folks discussing it were in a private room. Over the years, I have learned some pretty interesting (and disgusting) things by keeping my mouth shut and my ears open.

 

On the other thread, I also commented on the sheer volume of slabbed US modern bullion, all shapes, years, metals, sizes, and designs that I saw on display. I did not see anyone make a purchase, and I made a special effort to see if these were moving. There was one dealer in particular, one who is always handling the promotion du jour, who had four full cases of the stuff. As an outsider, I have witnessed some of these promotions, and when you are riding the wave, it's easy to feel like a genius. Just be careful that when the music stops, you still have a chair, and that's all I am going to say about that.

 

I always spend time with forum member, "Dahlonega", behind the Gold Rush Gallery table. He is my friend and mentor, and one of the nicest folks in coins. That said, he did something really cruel on this visit, when he dangled a very crusty, very desirable circulated southern gold coin (with a gold sticker, if I may add) in front of my eyes as trade bait toward something of mine which he wanted. Well, my coin was not available, and I wanted his coin and spent the better part of the afternoon nagging him to sell it to me. I left without it, but I know that I will get it in the end.

 

Another pet peeve, if you will, is dealers giving investment advice. If I saw one more dealer preaching the benefits of investing in coins ("Stocks are bad; coins are good."), I think I would have thrown up. This message can be heard from the headliner folks who you expect to hear it from and the mom-and-pop folks and every size dealer in between. I think, in principle, I will not buy from anyone selling coins to me as an investment.

 

I did one classic seller-dealer interaction go awry, and I feel for the dealers when this happens. A civilian brought in a raw Saint and offered it to a national dealer for sale. My furtive glance suggested that it was indeed nothing special. The national dealer really did not want it, but the civilian pushed him for an offer. Then, upon receiving the offer, which was reasonable, he was insulted, and the dealer was put in the defensive position where he had to explain how he arrived at the number, who else he should go to, etc. My guess is that this some scenario repeats itself hundreds of time at every coin show. Perhaps the bourse should provide printed resource for non-coin folks looking to sell their coins, so people will know what to expect.

 

While visiting a Missouri-based dealer that I know from local shows, a dealer came by his table and noticed some raw, toned Morgans in his case. Dennis explained that these are his neighbor's grandfather (who stored them in brown envelopes in the 50's--and had the envelopes to prove it!). The dealer went through the coins, tried to buy them all cheap, and ended up buying two to take back to show to someone else, before buying the rest. This is where I came in, picked the seven I liked the best, struck a deal for them and got out of dodge before the other guy came back. They are very vibrantly colored, some lightly circulated, others look BU. Because of their bargain status, I am going to call them my Somewhere Under the Bridge™ Collection.

 

I did view Sunnywood's coins, and they were terrific. My favorite was the 1880-S. On my multiple passes to try to meet him by his coins, he was either tied up or not there, and I regrettably never got to speak with him. It was one of my big disappointments of the show.

 

One of the auction coins which interested me the most was a coin that did not sell the night before, and after consulting with Boiler78, I made an appropriate offer to Heritage for the coin and am waiting to hear back.

 

I left the show with Boiler78, Lakesammman, and Ed62 (the four pattern heavyweights) and had a delicious dinner at Fish Bones. Unexpectedly, they had one of my favorite beers, Full Sail Amber Ale, which I thought was only sold in the Northwest, and we enjoyed the food, and the drink very much. There were lots of great stories told, but we all agreed that the "You Suck" award belonged to Lakesammman. When he was through with his regular coin show business, he had some time to kill, and looked through some of the tables of the "bargain dealer" inventories. He came across the display of some grungy Lincoln cents. In the middle, there was a blue one. Sure enough, it was a 1916 MPL! I am not going to tell you what he paid for it, but suffice to say, Russ would be proud!

 

After dinner, we all retired to our quarters, presumably to read and watch football.

 

My overall opinion of the show was that I thought that it was fairly brisk on Thursday, and clearly, merchandise was changing hands. I think that we are in the midst of a coin correction, of sorts, but the FUN show will probably not tell the story. People come to FUN with money to spend, deals to make, and that they do. The Long Beach show and early spring shows will probably be a better indication of where things are going. I would also commend Heritage. They do a terrific job running a clean auction and trying their best to make sure their customers get treated well--which is more than I can say about some of their competitors.

 

Personally, I think I am a bit down on coins and am probably due for a break. I am also tired of typing this excessively long report. Later!

[jgrinz]

Nice book ... To one that has NEVER been to a coin show .. I read these intently and appreciate everyword typed by you guys ..

Thanks RYK & Sage!

[WoodenJefferson]

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But, I am not yet tired of reading this excessively long report. Thanks!

 

[TomB]

Terrific report and we need pictures!

[DaveG]

Great Report! (thumbs u

[EZ_E]

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But, I am not yet tired of reading this excessively long report. Thanks!

 

Ditto! What an outstanding account. You make me feel both guilty and envious that I wasn't there!

 

I was also looking for a circulated 1795 half dime, but the ones I saw were either ugly, too expensive, or both.

 

This is good info for me because I will be in the market for all three early types of half dimes. These are tough coins to find in my target area, i.e. original, nice eye-appeal $2-3K coins. Very tough!

 

You have rubbed shoulders with figures that may as well be the president of the United States as far as I'm concerned for accessibility. Boiler78 being just one of them. And I'd love to meet Lou, IGWT someday. Nothing but love and respect to these honorable gents! I think that I must add you to that list, sagerod. (thumbs u

[dean1345]

I enjoyed reading your FUN report.

[physics-fan3.14]

I love these long detailed show reports. Makes me feel like I was there, and cheers me up cause I couldn't go.

[DirtyGoldMan]

Terrific report and we need pictures!

 

It will be quite some time before there are pictures.

 

Thanks for the props, guys. I am sorry about the syntax errors and continue to fix them as I discover them.

 

The coin that I made an offer on is [L=this one]http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1121&Lot_No=2052[/L], and my offer was rejected.

 

A few other random comments:

 

Mike Printz had a terrific complete set of Gem buffalo nickels, many in OGHs, that he assembled for a collector ten or more years ago. Rather than selling it whole to a crackout specialist, he sold them individually and tried to get them in the hands of collectors who would appreciate them. This should be commended, and we should all buy coins from dealers who think and act this way.

 

There are mountains of commems that are available for sale. In order to buy enough to make a difference in the market, you would have to mortgage several houses, and they better be in the nicest neighborhoods, too!

 

Every time I tried to catch up with Rick Snow at his table, he was busy, which was good for him, but bad for me.

 

The nicest Wreath cent that I saw in my grade/price range was in a PCGS Genuine holder at the HLRC table. I think that going forward there will be a lot more early copper in PCGS Genuine holders.

 

My guess is that very few of the coins that I saw on the bourse and had interest in will be sold at the offering prices.

[EZ_E]

I think that going forward there will be a lot more early copper in PCGS Genuine holders.

 

We're already seeing that. There's much less liability to PCGS to place a coin in a Genuine holder vs. net grading a slightly problematic coin.

[MikeKing]

This was a really great and enjoyable post to read. Thank you!

[IGWT]

As I wrote across the street, RYK/Sagerad's report is so good that I'm not going to write my own. From my arrival on Wed. evening (a bit late thanks to flight cancellations, changing airlines, and weather delays) and meeting RYK at the Lemus-Queller auction until my departure following the NGC luncheon on Saturday (thanks for the ride, Lakesammman!), the show was busy, busy, busy. I chatted with many NGC and/or PCGS forum members, including RYK, Boiler, Lakesammman, MrEureka, MadMarty, Tmot, Dennis, CRO, CCU, FinallyHere, Mark_Feld f/k/a Coinguy, Barndog (and his bro), Cape, Caitlin, Foodude, EagleEye, JrGman, Sunnywood (to whom we all owe thanks for displaying his toned Morgans), Julian, Newmismatist, KrytoniteComics, Pistareen, Coins, cpm8ball, and lots of other friends who don't participate on the forums. Thanks to everyone for a good time! I was a net seller at the show (in both dollars and number of coins), being fortunate to sell three pieces at strong prices in a generally weakening market. I came home with the coin pictured below -- a bit tougher than you might think -- and some cash for opportunities that I hope to take advantage of later this year.

 

A special thanks to NGC for the luncheon on Saturday, and especially to Dena (for all the organizational work and for allowing me through the door), to Scott (for the informative presentation and for enduring Chris's questions ), and to Mark Salzberg for realizing the importance of customer relations . . . and for giving a lot of that responsibility to Dena and Scott. The luncheon was a huge success, and I'll bet that a larger room will be needed next year. NGC's initiatives -- the new scratch-resistant holder (and anti-conterfeiting measures), anticipating the future products of foreign mints, and striking deals with Chinese numismatic enterprises (you see, we really were listening) make me think that NGC will eventually clean the clock of other TPGs.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

Hey Lou, or somebody, those of us who couldn't attend would *love* more details about the NGC luncheon!

[EZ_E]

Lou, that is one clean Shield Nickel! No cuds and minimal die breaks with pristine surfaces! Dang it, son! Some ticks on the devices limit it to a 65 or 66?

[MikeKing]

As I wrote across the street, RYK/Sagerad's report is so good that I'm not going to write my own. From my arrival on Wed. evening (a bit late thanks to flight cancellations, changing airlines, and weather delays) and meeting RYK at the Lemus-Queller auction until my departure following the NGC luncheon on Saturday (thanks for the ride, Boiler!), the show was busy, busy, busy. I chatted with many NGC and/or PCGS forum members, including RYK, Boiler, Lakesammman, MrEureka, MadMarty, Tmot, Dennis, CRO, CCU, FinallyHere, Mark_Feld f/k/a Coinguy, Barndog (and his bro), Cape, Caitlin, Foodude, EagleEye, JrGman, Sunnywood (to whom we all owe thanks for displaying his toned Morgans), Julian, Newmismatist, KrytoniteComics, Pistareen, Coins, cpm8ball, and lots of other friends who don't participate on the forums. Thanks to everyone for a good time! I was a net seller at the show (in both dollars and number of coins), being fortunate to sell three pieces at strong prices in a generally weakening market. I came home with the coin pictured below -- a bit tougher than you might think -- and some cash for opportunities that I hope to take advantage of later this year.

 

A special thanks to NGC for the luncheon on Saturday, and especially to Dena (for all the organizational work and for allowing me through the door), to Scott (for the informative presentation and for enduring Chris's questions ), and to Mark Salzberg for realizing the importance of customer relations . . . and for giving a lot of that responsibility to Dena and Scott. The luncheon was a huge success, and I'll bet that a larger room will be needed next year. NGC's initiatives -- the new scratch-resistant holder (and anti-conterfeiting measures), anticipating the future products of foreign mints, and striking deals with Chinese numismatic enterprises (you see, we really were listening) make me think that NGC will eventually clean the clock of other TPGs.

 

 

Lou, some nerve posting a plain old Shield Nickel of all things. With RAYS no less...Ha!

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By the way, is that a duplicate? Is the one I yearned for way back when available? Not that I'm interested in buying it or anything ....

[IGWT]

By the way, is that a duplicate?

Yes and no.

 

Is the one I yearned for way back when available? Not that I'm interested in buying it or anything ....

If I recall correctly, you're thinking of an 1867 w/rays, not an 1866:

 

[MikeKing]

ah yes! THATS the one!