1878 7/8 (weak) VAM 33A Morgan Dollar 0

[prudden]

I'll try to get better photos later. Meantime, what do you guys think? I think it's MS 63 maybe 64.For someone who collects Morgans I should have had one of these alot sooner.Thanks

[jgrinz]

I do not think that would designate a 7/8

 

I was under the assumption you had to see at least 3 to 4 feathers for it to be catagorized as one ... I am not sure I am even seeing ONE ... I may be wrong but I am sure more people will chime in ... as for the coin MS61

 

Here is mine

 

[MAULEMALL]

vam 33 a I don't see any obverse clashes

[prudden]

It may be a different VAM. I see at least 3 remnants of the tailfeathers clearly,and 1 or 2 slightly doubled. you're right I missed the lack of clash marks on the face. It may be VAM32. I'll look it over more closely.A couple more pictures. Here's the clash at the neck and I can see the polished nostril in one of te other pics. I might have jumped the gun a bit.Stay tuned for better pictures soon.

 

Really Jgrinz?61?

Edited December 22, 2008 by prudden

[rrantique]

MS-63 (thumbs u

[physics-fan3.14]

looks like a 63 to me

[jgrinz]

Really Jgrinz?61?

 

I tend to have a very particular taste and eye for MORGANS ( not necessarily Vams per se)

 

This year Philadelphia Mint strike is usually pretty good but yours has light strikes here and there which I find distracting but others may not. The breast feathers are not struck firmly as is usual with this issue - the tail feathers, with your close up, show that they also are not struck firmly and show lack of detail - The ear also looks a little flat and the brush marks are very distracting to me. Hence this is what I would grade this coin ... It will probably differ from others

 

[prudden]

Hey Jgrinz,

 

That's fine and I acknowledge every one of your points. You've got a better eye than me.I like to have these things pointed out. Still,these aren't my pictures. They aren't bad,but I'm going to wait and see.

[BillJones]

[quote I do not think that would designate a 7/8

]

 

Oh come on! The fourth feather from the left clearly has a feather below it, which easily qualifies as a "weak 7/8 tailfeather" piece.

 

One of the things that has always got me about the "weak tail feather" varieties is that many of them of interesting doubling in spots other than the tail feathers. You can see doubled claws and other spots that are just as interesting as the tail featers, yet that's all that counts. Unfortunately this piece does not show a lot of that doubling so it is a weak example, but an obvious one none the less.

[prudden]

Back again,

 

Okay,after studying this coin under 10X,I believe it to be what I originally posted, a VAM 33a. What Vamworld calls it is "1878-P VAM-33A 7/8 Tailfeather 7/4 variety" I can see 4 very light doubled tail feathers.I haven't been able to get it in a picture yet.

Looking at it from several angles,I do see the clashing on the lips,nose,chin and neck. Also,very slightly doubled stars to the right of the date.

On the reverse, the legs and talons are doubled,there is a long nock and a small clash at the eagles neck.And finally the small "bump" on the underside of the left olive branch.There are a couple minor items I'm leaving out as not necessary for diagnostics.Just happy I got what I paid for.

So, would you all get this coin graded?Thanks for reading

Edited January 4, 2009 by prudden

[dreamedreamer]

I would grade this as an MS-63 to 63+, and as far as the doubling of the feathers, it is very weak, and it may be the photo, but I’m not sure it would get there 8/7TF designation because of the possible lack of doubling of the feathers. But, this Morgan has a number of characteristics that I look for when I’m in search of an 1868 8/7TF Morgan.

If you look right above the top arrow feather, there is what appears to be a berry-before you get to the leaves, and I call them phantom berries, and almost all 8/7TF Morgan’s have this characteristic. The grey spaces on the Eagle’s wings, that have no wing feather details, because of this kind of strike-type. The grey area exists on the bottom feathers as well. Wear appears to be the cause of the issues we are discussing, especially the on the Eagle’s feathers.

On the obverse, where the chin meets the neck is a faint white line which is part of a clash I believe. This white line is on many of the 8/7TF’s I’ve seen. The P-R-B in Pluribus, often have doubling at the base of those letters, so I always look at that before I choose to buy this type of Morgan. The P and the R appear to have something going on at the bottom—sometimes the R has tripling of it's bottom--and i can't tell if the B has that kind of activity because of the photos. 

There is often doubling of “Liberty,” but yours does not seem to have that. I just looked again at the B in Pluribus, and there appears to be activity, possibly doubling-at the bottom.

I was able to enlarge your photos now and there appears to be a small clash-if you go up to the 5th star on the right-behind Miss Liberty’s head, right where the bottom of the cap meets her hair.There is often doubling of several of the stars as well, but I couldn’t tell if any of yours had doubling. The doubling of the Eagle’s legs are sometimes, not always, on the 8/TF variety. Your’s appears to have the doubling of the Eagle’s legs.

i would get it graded. Put in to have all the VAM ‘s on the coin in the slab. You have to request this, because the primary grading companies, will not list the VAMS present on the coin, unless it is requested and paid for, in advance. I personally think that’s a crock, that when you send a coin in for grading, these unique, interesting characteristics of the coin, are not automatically done during a normal grading evaluation. 

Anyway, I’m no expert, but this is a nice Morgan that has VAMS on her, and whether or not it meets the 8/7TF designation, it has enough going on that would make her a good coin to get graded.

I've noticed that the most common grade the 78’ 8/7TF has been an MS-63.

Good luck!

 

 

 

[GW]

Morgan Dollar sure have a lot of varieties. 

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/dollars/morgan-dollars-1878-1921/

 

[jgrinz]

13 hours ago, gtw-123 said:

Morgan Dollar sure have a lot of varieties. 

https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/dollars/morgan-dollars-1878-1921/

 

 

14 hours ago, dreamedreamer said:

I would grade this as an MS-63 to 63+, and as far as the doubling of the feathers, it is very weak, and it may be the photo, but I’m not sure it would get there 8/7TF designation because of the possible lack of doubling of the feathers. But, this Morgan has a number of characteristics that I look for when I’m in search of an 1868 8/7TF Morgan.

If you look right above the top arrow feather, there is what appears to be a berry-before you get to the leaves, and I call them phantom berries, and almost all 8/7TF Morgan’s have this characteristic. The grey spaces on the Eagle’s wings, that have no wing feather details, because of this kind of strike-type. The grey area exists on the bottom feathers as well. Wear appears to be the cause of the issues we are discussing, especially the on the Eagle’s feathers.

On the obverse, where the chin meets the neck is a faint white line which is part of a clash I believe. This white line is on many of the 8/7TF’s I’ve seen. The P-R-B in Pluribus, often have doubling at the base of those letters, so I always look at that before I choose to buy this type of Morgan. The P and the R appear to have something going on at the bottom—sometimes the R has tripling of it's bottom--and i can't tell if the B has that kind of activity because of the photos. 

There is often doubling of “Liberty,” but yours does not seem to have that. I just looked again at the B in Pluribus, and there appears to be activity, possibly doubling-at the bottom.

I was able to enlarge your photos now and there appears to be a small clash-if you go up to the 5th star on the right-behind Miss Liberty’s head, right where the bottom of the cap meets her hair.There is often doubling of several of the stars as well, but I couldn’t tell if any of yours had doubling. The doubling of the Eagle’s legs are sometimes, not always, on the 8/TF variety. Your’s appears to have the doubling of the Eagle’s legs.

i would get it graded. Put in to have all the VAM ‘s on the coin in the slab. You have to request this, because the primary grading companies, will not list the VAMS present on the coin, unless it is requested and paid for, in advance. I personally think that’s a crock, that when you send a coin in for grading, these unique, interesting characteristics of the coin, are not automatically done during a normal grading evaluation. 

Anyway, I’m no expert, but this is a nice Morgan that has VAMS on her, and whether or not it meets the 8/7TF designation, it has enough going on that would make her a good coin to get graded.

I've noticed that the most common grade the 78’ 8/7TF has been an MS-63.

Good luck!

 

 

 

 

You do realize this post is 10-11 years old right ....

:/

[dreamedreamer]

No I didn’t! better finding out late than never! Lol  

I haven’t posted on this site very often. This-the 8/7TF is a VAM that’s one of my favorites!

[jgrinz]

7 hours ago, dreamedreamer said:

No I didn’t! better finding out late than never! Lol  

I haven’t posted on this site very often. This-the 8/7TF is a VAM that’s one of my favorites!

Yours is also a LONG knock

Left end post for the Arrow feathers. Nice coin though it looks like it has a scratch at the ear