I've noticed that even though collectors don't like dealers' sales hype...

[MarkFeld]

when they offer their own coins for sale, they're at least as bad as the dealers are. It seems that a high percentage of collector coins listed for sale are described as PQ, beautiful, etc, even if/though they don't look very nice.

Do you agree or disagree with my observations?

[MikeInFL]

I agree, and in many cases, collectors are even worse....Mike

[James_OldeTowne]

I agree with the observation, though I'm much more forgiving of a collector committing this sin than a dealer doing so.

[MarkFeld]

I agree with the observation, though I'm much more forgiving of a collector committing this sin than a dealer doing so.

James, why are you more forgiving of collectors?

[RI AL]

Hi, Mark.

 

I've been cruising around for a decent obverse mint mark walking liberty half. I ran into this one that seems to be a good example of what you speak. Check out E-Bay 270315019688. I love the description as "some wear but great condition circulated". Maybe a bit of an understatement??

 

RI AL

[James_OldeTowne]

I agree with the observation, though I'm much more forgiving of a collector committing this sin than a dealer doing so.

James, why are you more forgiving of collectors?

Because I think they are responding in kind to hypester dealers. In other words, "they started it" !

[MarkFeld]

I agree with the observation, though I'm much more forgiving of a collector committing this sin than a dealer doing so.

James, why are you more forgiving of collectors?

Because I think they are responding in kind to hypester dealers. In other words, "they started it" !

Was that a serious answer? If so, that's an extremely weak reason to be more forgiving of collectors.

[World Colonial]

I do not know the frequency of either, but would agree that eBay sellers who are not dealers frequently make these claims even when it is obvious that the coin is subpar and many times, even a problem coin.

[MarkFeld]

I do not know the frequency of either, but would agree that eBay sellers who are not dealers frequently make these claims even when it is obvious that the coin is subpar and many times, even a problem coin.

I agree and was also speaking of collectors who offer coins for sale on coin forums.

[DirtyGoldMan]

I agree completely.

[stman]

I disagree, I actually like the dealer hype these days. Great entertainment:).

And not all collectors hype their coins for sale. I actually just say what is usually and the price. You know, save the stories. Heh heh

 

Sometimes I have downplayed my own coins for sale.

[braddick]

Collectors are not as seasoned as Dealers in selling coins. They are to be forgiven for slight transgressions.

Couple that with "ownership adds a point or two on the attraction scale"- especially strong among collectors who are more tied to their coins than Dealers are.

[World Colonial]

I see your point but would not (personally) consider it a valid reason to "hype" a coin, though I recognize that "hype" is a subjective term and subject to interpretation.

 

The original question was not specific, but in my case at least, my reply was not considering a one or two point difference, but more egregious cases. I agree that many/most collectors could make that type of error but the ones that I have seen that are the worst are cleaned, corroded or grossly overgraded coins being described otherwise.

[michael]

I agree, and in many cases, collectors are even worse....Mike

 

(thumbs u

[James_OldeTowne]

I agree with the observation, though I'm much more forgiving of a collector committing this sin than a dealer doing so.

James, why are you more forgiving of collectors?

Because I think they are responding in kind to hypester dealers. In other words, "they started it" !

Was that a serious answer? If so, that's an extremely weak reason to be more forgiving of collectors.

Mark, let me turn the question back at you. If dealers didn't set the precedent for endlessly hyping coins coins for sale, do you think collectors would? Serious question.

[MarkFeld]

I agree with the observation, though I'm much more forgiving of a collector committing this sin than a dealer doing so.

James, why are you more forgiving of collectors?

Because I think they are responding in kind to hypester dealers. In other words, "they started it" !

Was that a serious answer? If so, that's an extremely weak reason to be more forgiving of collectors.

Mark, let me turn the question back at you. If dealers didn't set the precedent for endlessly hyping coins coins for sale, do you think collectors would? Serious question.

Yes, I think collectors would still do it and that it's human nature. And however much it bothers me, it bothers me more when the collectors who are guilty of it are the same ones who complain about dealers doing the same thing.

[James_OldeTowne]

Yes, I think collectors would still do it and that it's human nature. And however much it bothers me, it bothers me more when the collectors who are guilty of it are the same ones who complain about dealers doing the same thing.

Mark, I'm not sure this is really what's bothering you, because maybe your definition of "hype" differs from mine. "Hype" isn't just exaggerated claims of a coin's grade or appearance. It also encompasses many factors, not the least of which is the extent and sheer quantity of blaring advertisements. When I thumb through CoinWorld, it's amazing how many full-page ads there are with glaring headlines, claims of record setting sales, loud banners proclaming "official this" and "official that", and membership in a countless alphabet soup of organizations. We see ads proclaiming the finest collections, the greatest collections, "world class" collections, leaders in pop-tops, highest prices paid, lowest prices guaranteed, revenues of billions of dollars, market makers in this or that specialty, and of course the ubiquitous unverified letters from worshipful clients.

 

I cannot think of a single collector personally known to me that is guilty of this type of nonsense. And no, I do not agree that it is human nature to hype coins. I think it is corporate nature to do so (or at least "company" nature). If anything, the colletors I spend most time with tend to downplay their own coins.

 

I do think it is something instigated by dealers first, and it is followed by collectors who feel they must compete on a level playing field (when they want to sell something). But of the collectors I hang out with, which is basically my local coin club, I do not believe there is a single one who puts up hype around his table of coins for sale. I do believe you if you state that collectors advertising coins for sale on coin forums are hypesters, but that is a tiny percentage of collectors. The percentage of dealers participating in hype is huge by comparison.

 

Just my respectfully dissenting opinion...

[Catbert]

Just my respectfully dissenting opinion...

 

And well argued, in my opinion!

[Dcoin]

I think as opposed to dealers who hype to sell, collectors truly believe it. When it comes time to sell, the belief that has been created is passed along as gospel.

[ant]

in the begining i used to get told "this is a BU or gem coin" so when i decided to sell i would also put that desrciption down. we all remember some of my first purchases when first ariving here. it was bad.lots of these non dealers selling there coins as "hyped" might have had the dealer "teach" them what it is they are saying.

 

i still see GEM on ms63 labeled coin auctions alot. thats like saying gem au in my eyes.

 

some people know they got took and would rather take advantage of someone else instead of just taking a loss on a lesson.

[Oldtrader3]

Unfortunately even some large auction houses get carried away with the hyperbole. What is a collector supposed to do? You buy a graded, certified coin from one of these higher priced, dealer/auction houses with all their hyperbole about the coin, plus their Photoshop goosed images, pay full retail, get the coin, it has a rub, try to sell it back through one of their auctions and they diss the rub, you lose $500. or so on the transaction? Or the auction house sells you a puttied coin with all the hyperbole on how wonderful it is and you remove the putty and get 35% for the coin of what you paid for it when you sell it in a NCS holder.

 

How is a collector supposed to deal with these unfortunate realities of our hobby. If the bigboys lie why shouldn't the poor collector stretch a little in self defense. I bet in most cases, when the collector bought the coin it was lauded and praised to the skies by the dealer. I don't blame many collectors for responding in kind. They learned it from the best in the business!

[ant]

(thumbs u

[just-john]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder or should it be beauty is in the eye of the holder at that time . Guess it all subjective -eye appeal think of it like nobody ugly at closing time when your selling its closing time

[TomB]

Agree.

[TJ'S Coins]

Collectors seek recognition, affirmation, and premium prices for their "quality" coins which may have been hyped to them. A collector may "think" they "know" what a deal they are making but may only be fooling themselves. Dealers want to make a profit on their merchandise. Nothing unusual about these statements.

 

a) The best protection is to buy nothing until you know what you getting - flaws and all. Attend as many shows as possible and look at the coins that interest you. There is no substitute for seeing as many coins as possible of what you want to collect. Read the book before hand. Become familiar with the diagnostics of grading for that particular coin or series. Ask other collectors and dealers for their opinions of what to look for in a a good coin for the series.

b) Another good idea is to periodically offer coins to dealer and listen to his evaluation of your wares. It's amazing how a coin can change depending on which side of the counter one stands.

c) Collect what you enjoy and can afford. If you like your coins it shouldn't matter what someone else thinks.

d) While profits may follow with the sale of coins one can just as easily lose money for any number of reasons.

e) Unless you really know what you are doing, don't expect to reap huge financial rewards. As has been said many times and many ways, there is no Santa Claus in the coin business.

 

Is it not human nature to try look out for one's own interests ahead of the interests of others? Greed knows no distinction between collector or dealer.

 

Yes Mark, I agree with your observations.

[Houston Investor]

Legends hype not only pushes their coins but CAC. Their newsletter is one of the most finely crafted documents of rare coin sales hype I have seen. What I found so silly was their urging collectors to put pressure on dealers to carry only CAC coins.

 

Hype can be both entertaining and obnoxious.