If I were a dealer with a store, I would be hesitant to give out buying quotes!

[truthteller]

I read a few posts on the PCGS boards whereby a few collectors go to a shop or show, ask for quotes when offering coins, only to be offended by the offers. In one post, a collector asks for quotes from several dealers with the intention of not selling but placing them on ebay. The offers the collector receives are offensive, and he rants about how coin dealers are all scumbags. I truly don't understand why one would ask for offers, and not be satisfied. He can accept or decline and go on his way. But some feel that their coins are worth much more and are so insulted as to make a post on the forums. Is it that some collectors take offense of their own abilities to grade? Or do some collectors feel that since they own the coin, it is somehow worth more than market value? Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[RobertB]

Personally, if I ever did sell to a dealer I'd expect to get bent over. I guess it's the nature of the field. Dealers of coins, like any other dealers, buy low and sell high. It's the way it goes. I understand that. I would think some dealers could go weeks without making any decent money, so, when they do, they really do. Fortunately these days with mass communication, the internet, and third party grading firms, one can get a reasonable estimate of their coins worth and then pretty darn close to that if the coin is at least eye appealing. This I believe sucks for dealers. When I hear dealers cannot find coins I think it's not because they can't find them, but because people are going above or around them.

 

Those who get quotes from a dealer and are actually disappointed are in my opinion, stupid. How can you expect to get book, or market, from a dealer? It ain't gonna happen. If you ask for a quote you should be prepared for anything. If one doesn't like the quote then they should shut up and leave. It's business, plain and simple.

[MikeKing]

I would think that some people feel their coin(s) is worth more than the market value, because they own it, and want to get a pleasing amount of money for it. (Pleasing = profitable). I think there is also a fear of being ripped off, taken, short-changed ( ) and that the source of that fear could be any combination of things from prior experience to Freudian mumbo jumbo, which would include a lack of desire to face the inaccuracy of their own grading abilities. And as you imply, an inability to accept the true market value of a given coin. So I think the answer to your question is all of the above (in your post).

 

Unfortunately, fear can lead to irrational behavior on everyones part, and sometimes certain fears are unjustified and the end result could be being offered a reasonable amount of money by a fair dealer and the dealer being accused of lowballing. On the other hand, sometimes those fears might be founded in reality.

 

I don't know much of anything about coin dealers, having purchased most of my coins at auction. I did find that one dealer I worked with seemed to get touchy if I asked questions about either a mark on the coin or something like that, after I had bought it. I was only learning. Pretty innocent if you ask me.

 

So I think I've avoided coin dealers because of my lack of experience with them and my memories of a time I used to deal with violins and bows on a sort of amateurish level, however, I learned a lot having engaged most of the NYC dealers around Carnegie Hall, at one time or another.

 

A friend of mine put it to me this way, when I cried over some of the condescending statements I recieved about a low end ($ 28,000.00) Italian violin I was trying to sell: "They're like used carpet salesmen". And he really hit it on the nose. Have you ever haggled over the price of a used Persian carpet? Or tried to buy shoes in Italy (OK, this may be dated, I'm thinking about over 30 yr ago)?

 

Typically (but not always, and mind you, some {but few} of the best Strad and Guaneri dealers did NOT behave this way and were very accomodating), I would show my merchandise, have it picked to shreds (as if I would believe the atrocious lies they were making), and then offered substandard amounts of money knowing damn well they would have made a killing had I sold it to them. Usually I left feeling totally demoralized even though I knew enough to know that they were full of xxxx.

 

But then, there were those few (10%?) in whom I ended up trusting completely. Good honest, fair minded, and REALISTIC (in terms of the market) people who through good business practices and honesty, made a lot of money and didn't have to short-change people in order to do so. However, this was not until I had been through the mill with less than scrupulous dealers and had been burned (and rescued) several times. In the end, I gave up that 'hobby' of mine, although, I've been told I was pretty good at it.

 

So I imagine coin dealing is similar, although I could be wrong.

 

I think my fears and hesitations about hooking up with a coin dealer stem from these 'other' experiences.

 

But asking for a price without intending to sell it to the dealer is not really a good thing to do unless you are PAYING for an evaluation. I used to do my research first...on the dealers and the merchandise...before approaching anyone. I think that's the best way to do it. This way, you can weed yourself through the scoundrels and not go back to them. And if I wanted an appraisal without the intention of selling it to the Violin dealer, I paid 5-7% for this service.

 

I just don't feel up to this kind of stuff any longer, and maybe that's why I have yet to develop a relationship with a coin dealer. Much to my disadvantage, I suppose.

 

Am I going on and on???

 

 

 

 

 

[EZ_E]

re: Am I going on and on???

 

Nope, not at all.

 

When I was 17 in 1983, I went to sell my comic book collection. The dealer said that if I chose not to sell to him, then he'd charge me fifteen cents per issue appraisal fee. So, he didn't even appraise them and offered me $35 for over 600 DC Superman, etc. comix. That's six-cents an issue for books from the '60's and '70's. He totally ripped me and took advantage of me. That was twenty years ago and I'm still pissed about it!!! If I had any sense at the time then I should have told him to bite me and that I was a minor and took my stuff. If he'd given me a ration then I could have called the cops on the unscupulous SOB!

 

Moral? Even though a dealer works on the premise of buying low and selling high, there is still integrity involved. Like you were saying, Mike, some violin dealers were stand-up guys, others were snakes. How long will the wicked prosper? One is suppose to reap what one sows, but, in my experience, it is the squirrelly ones who prosper the most.

 

Now it's my turn to say, "Am I going on and on?"

 

[truthteller]

OK, here's a true story that will make all coin collectors sleep better tonight. About 10 years ago, a bigtime coin dealer bought a collection from the heirs of a famous person. The dealer paid roughly $50,000 for absolutely pristine US collection of early type. The collection sells for over $2 million at auction. So, apparently, the dealer knew he was paying literally micropennies on the dollar. He thought he was slick. Months later he dies from a heart attack at a very early age. Never got to spend the millions and if you mention his name today, dealers will remember how he 'ripped' the collection. Not something most dealers want to be remembered for.

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

[EZ_E]

OK, here's a true story that will make all coin collectors sleep better tonight. About 10 years ago, a bigtime coin dealer bought a collection from the heirs of a famous person. The dealer paid roughly $50,000 for absolutely pristine US collection of early type. The collection sells for over $2 million at auction. So, apparently, the dealer knew he was paying literally micropennies on the dollar. He thought he was slick. Months later he dies from a heart attack at a very early age. Never got to spend the millions and if you mention his name today, dealers will remember how he 'ripped' the collection. Not something most dealers want to be remembered for.

 

 

 

 

TRUTH

 

Perhaps there is justice! I thought that that was against the law? It's like when John Ford acquired the 1861 original Confederate half dollar in the early '60's. He bought it from a dealer off of the bourse who thought that it was a restrike. When it was later determined to be an original strike, the dealer and original owner later sued him for a percentage of its value. Ford was honorable from the beginning and had let the dealer know the scoop even before the purchase. So how could the unscupulous bung-hole of a dealer get away with such weaselness?

 

I read a story a little while back on this board. A collector was in a local coin shop when an individual with lots of IHC's entered the shop. He offered them for sale. The dealer told the seller that there wasn't anything special in the lot and paid like a buck apiece for the cents (if that). As soon as the custumer walked out, the dealer was bragging and snickering about ripping an 1877 Indian head cent off of the sucker. Yep, lots of character there.

[BillJones]

I don't know about coin stores, but at coin shows, most of what people bring in to sell does not amount to much. At best it is 90% silver with no collector value. At the least it is stuff like JFK clad have dollars and slightly worn Ike dollars that are worth face value. Any older coins they have low grade, and very hard to sell. It's the type of stuff a dealer will have for a long time before he can sell it, which means he can't pay much if anything for it.

 

These people who are looking for quotes so they can put something up on Ebay are just looking for free professional information. They should be thankful for what they get for free. A formal appraisal takes time, and should cost those who ask for one, money.

 

A lot of people can't get it through their heads that not every coin is valuable. If fact most coins aren't. That's why collectors pay good prices for them. They are scrarce goods that are not easy to find. Yes, a family hoard can yield a surprise now and and then, but most of them don't.

[dakra]

Why would you be hesitant especially if your offer is fair and reasonable. If the customer huffs and puffs, show them the price list(s), if they still have a problem they can try to sell it on their own and go through the hassle of selling it on their own.

 

On the other hand, if your going to offer someone way under bid or "rip" them, then you should worry about giving quotes

 

A while ago, I took some of my coins to a few dealers in the area to see what dealer(s) I could trust. I was pretty amazed by the discrepancy in prices I was offered. Most of the dealers kind of brushed me off but one stood out from all the rest and now he has a customer for life.

 

-Dave

 

[SilverEagleCoins]

OK, let's say asking for a dealer quote is not proper. Is a seller supposed to walk up to the dealer and say will you buy this for $X (a highball price?) and get laughed at by the dealer?

[MAULEMALL]

OK, let's say asking for a dealer quote is not proper. Is a seller supposed to walk up to the dealer and say will you buy this for $X (a highball price?) and get laughed at by the dealer?

Go in with a price before hand and then No one gets their feelings hurt. You have to do your homework too.

His job is to get the most he can so I would not be upset.

I'm there to cherry pick him so It all works out.

 

Edited to add;

Too many people take it personal.....It's business.

[BillJones]

On the other hand, if your going to offer someone way under bid or "rip" them, then you should worry about giving quotes

 

Sometimes you guys place too much stock on the "bid" prices. For some very popular coins that have been slabbed, the wholesale prices can be over bid. For low grade type coins, a dealer is lucky if he can find a collector (retail customer) who will pay bid, and that can be after holding the item for many months. Therefore offering way under bid is fair because the real market does not support the numbers that on the sheets. I don't know who sets those prices, but they sure don't have much to do with the market in which I do business.