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A new Morgan DMPL- more pics added

Started by prudden,

15 posts in this topic

prudden

prudden

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I got this one in the mail today. There is some light chatter in the fields on the obverse that almost disappears in certain lighting. It looks like there is some pitting on the reverse under the eagles wing? The face of Liberty is almost perfect.No hits at all. What do you all think? Thanks for looking.

 

86dmpl1.jpg

86dmpl2.jpg

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jgrinz

jgrinz

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Looks counterfeit to me .. frost does not look right

Stars on the obverse do not look right ...

Looks like some spilled 'painted' frost between beak and wing

 

 

 

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bsshog40

bsshog40

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I agree with Mike here. Unless the pics don't depict the actual appearance of this coin, there are some spotting issues going on with the frost. A lot of spaces on the letters and stars. It also seems strange to me to have so much chatter in the fields and none on liberty?? What small nics are seen in the cap are also frosted. Would this be normal? Hope I'm wrong.

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

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I wonder if this isn't an example of a coin that has been "thumbed"? This term has been used here, before, but I don't have enough experience to tell. All I can say is that her face does not look right. Also, the left-hand star on the reverse looks a little odd. I don't know if it is fake or not, but it sure looks like she has had a facelift.

 

Chris

 

PS. I'd be highly suspect of anything in an ACG slab. If it was a legitimate, problem-free coin, it would be in a better holder.

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prudden

prudden

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I think it's the pictures guys.It looks like most of my other DMPLs in hand My camera gets some funky shots with these DMPLs. I have another picture I took recently of an 87 DMPL. Looks similar? Just to add, you guys could be right too. It's in an old ACG slab. If that means anything.

One last edit: Jgrinz mentioned something under the beak. I see it in the photo. It's not there now. I think something was stuck on the slab.I can retake the pics.

 

87dmpl.jpg

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prudden

prudden

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I took another picture of the Obverse. I though this one would show just how minimal the chatter in the fields actually is. What is in the other pictures is exaggerated. As for the left star on the reverse, it's normal. Again the picture cut off one of the points. Godawful pictures I guess. Anyway,here's this one. I'll listen to what you have to say.

 

86dmrefl.jpg

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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I have to agree that there is something odd about this coin. Having in the past the unfortunate experience of having to turn away coins with altered frost, this coin is reminiscent of some of those coins.

 

Except in the case of extraordinarily high-grade DMPL coins (MS-67 and up), one always expects to have some tiny shiny spots in the frost, indicative of bagmarks or handling marks. This coin lacks such issues. So, it is either an altered coin, or one of very extraordinary circumstances.

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

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I have to agree that there is something odd about this coin. Having in the past the unfortunate experience of having to turn away coins with altered frost, this coin is reminiscent of some of those coins.

 

Except in the case of extraordinarily high-grade DMPL coins (MS-67 and up), one always expects to have some tiny shiny spots in the frost, indicative of bagmarks or handling marks. This coin lacks such issues. So, it is either an altered coin, or one of very extraordinary circumstances.

 

James, there was a discussion in another thread about "thumbed" coins, but I can't remember where it is or how the subject arose. Do you remember it? I believe you were one of the members talking about thumbed coins. Does this DMPL look like it may have been thumbed?

 

Chris

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WoodenJefferson

WoodenJefferson

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If you have a scrape or chatter on a cameo surface which exposes the shinier underlying metal, a bit of nose oil on the thumb will often times dull the glare seen by a fresh scrape. It does not always work, but I have seen a Morgan or two where her cheek was thumbed and with a brief look, appears like there was nothing ever wrong. A closer examination with magnification and coin rotation in a good light source will reveal the hidden anomalies.

 

There are times when the nose grease will turn a yellowish haze after awhile, so it you see this on Ms. Liberty‘s cheek or on the Eagles breast feathers, avoid the coin at all cost. The grading services can cull these coins because of the obvious, but novice collectors will not recognize the slight changes in the coins surfaces.

 

Good luck.

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prudden

prudden

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Well,I'll tell you guys,neither the 1886 nor the 1887 shows that much contrast in hand,or quite that much frost.The 86 does have a very clean cheek. But I'm sending the 86 out to an expert to check it out for me.

Thanks for posting.Pete

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James_OldeTowne

James_OldeTowne

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James, there was a discussion in another thread about "thumbed" coins, but I can't remember where it is or how the subject arose. Do you remember it? I believe you were one of the members talking about thumbed coins. Does this DMPL look like it may have been thumbed?

I definitely do have experienced with thumbed coins. This is no joke - I once appraised a collection of Morgan dollars for a fellow who had been getting most of his coins from a single source - and I bet 2/3 of his Morgans were thumbed! Coincidence hm ?

 

But in this case, though it could be thumbed, I would lean more toward artificial frost IF the coin has the same issues in hand as depicted in the images.

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prudden

prudden

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Artificial Frost was my initial assesment

 

Hey jgrinz,

 

You read the later post that the thing below the beak isn't there anymore,right. It was something sticking to the slab(on the outside!!!)HA! Just wanted to clear that up.You'll see in these new pictures. But there is something above the second S in states on the reverse. And,what about the picture of the 87 PL? That's the way my camera takes pictures. Lastly, heres a couple more of the 86 just for the heck of it.

More comments welcome, Pete

 

86dplfar1.jpg

86dplfar2.jpg

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cpm9ball

cpm9ball

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These photos look a little better. I noticed that light spot above the "S" and the one on the left wingtip. It's possible that it was dipped and not rinsed thoroughly.

 

Chris

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