Very Late Show Report for CoinFest

[TomB]

Please excuse this very late show report for the CoinFest show in CT. I had intended to produce a report earlier and had wanted to not only include some information as to my experience with CAC, but also wanted to post the thread on both the PCGS and NGC boards. However, I was concerned that any thoughtful consideration of CAC would result in the thread being pulled by the PCGS moderators, which made me wonder how I would write this report. Finally, I decided to write the report and post it only on the NGC boards.

 

I went to this show on both Friday and Saturday and was there for the entire morning and afternoon on both days. The parking situation appeared somewhat odd in that I followed the signs for the parking garage, which is an underground garage, and then proceeded to follow signs for hotel parking. Unfortunately, at each area that it appeared that one might be able to enter the underground hotel parking lot, there was a temporary barricade, so I ended up parking beneath "Building 300". This would be fine, except that the underground parking was quite poorly lit, had no "You are here..." maps and with its 6'8" ceiling had a claustrophobic feel to it. I emerged into the lobby of Building 300 without quite knowing where I was and an attendant told me that the hotel was a five minute walk away. It was raining lightly, which made the walk okay, but I can imagine that in the dark or heavier rain that this might be an issue.

 

The bourse was on the second floor of the hotel and there seemed to be a substantial security presence. The security personnel were also quite polite and helpful, in my estimation. The bourse itself was attractive with very high ceilings and terrific lighting. It was the type of room that wedding receptions or corporate parties are typically held in and this made it a bit more pleasant than the usual coin gathering. One thing I did not like was that the bourse was split into approximately four discreet areas, but that might be picky on my part.

 

Friday was spent almost exclusively with the boys of Coin Rarities Online (John and Dave) or with njcoincrank. John and Dave were gracious enough to allow me to park all of my belongings behind their table and were also willing to socially gab without my buying or selling anything. Thanks! They did, however, have some very nice proof IHCs as well as their usual selection of superb "colonial" and early Americana issues. MikeKing showed up with a box of coins and we were able to go through his pieces and then mine, which is always a highlight of a get together. We were also able to set up a tentative coin dinner in the future. As per usual, njcoincrank had lots of show-and-tell pieces as well as an astounding assortment of superb coinage. He is also someone from whom I may have learned more from over the years than anyone else in the hobby-industry.

 

Saturday was more of the same in the parking garage, but I made a real effort to see the entire bourse floor that afternoon. All of the quality raw coins that I brought with me were sold quite easily and most went to John of Anawan Coin. I have known John for quite a while and he has very good integrity and sells many original pieces, which is why I sold my coins directly to him. While there I met with Whit, a PCGS board member, and we had a very enjoyable conversation regarding the local coin and university-college scene. Next was a meeting with TonedDollars (Jack). Jack always has superb coins to show to folks and this time he had with him a Peace dollar that I am very familiar with and that might be the prettiest Peace dollar I have ever seen. He and I, along with MarkT, may be in the background of most every wedding photo from a reception going on while Jack showed us some gorgeously toned coins. Mark also brought coins with him and although he has been in the hobby-industry for quite a bit less time than I have, I can honestly say that he is well beyond where I was at a similar point in my history.

 

Back on the bourse I had a discussion with a well known dealer and we both agreed that the market for mid-grade Barber half dollars has really taken a strong pause after its extended rally of the last few years. Another experienced dealer also agreed with me when I told him that I felt like I had no clue as to where the market would head next and that this made me somewhat more uncomfortable than in the past. Even with these two conversations, it must be pointed out that the dealers in attendance looked quite pleased by the show, but I do not know if their sales matched their expectations.

 

DaveG appeared at one point and attempted to slide past Julian Leidman's table without stopping to chat until I pointed him out to Julian as one of those Southern gold enthusiasts. At that point I think Julian's opinion of Dave might have dropped slightly. Of course, Julian had an array of amazing pieces and displayed great patience in sharing the coins for inspection. A first time meeting with PreTurb happened quite by accident as he was handing a coin to the boys at CRO and I recognized the coin from an image that PreTurb had posted on the web approximately four years ago. When you recognize a coin from an image seen four years ago, you know something is terribly wrong. PreTurb, being a more normal human than I am, likely thought I was some unknown lunatic as I looked over his shoulder at the coin until I mentioned who I was and how I knew who he was, which then confirmed the impression of a lunatic.

 

There was some spectacular coinage on the floor that ranged from Julian's wide assortment of high end type to the quality copper pieces offered by Andy Skrabalak and Rick Snow, the extensive Seated inventory of Pinnacle Rarities, the large number of three-cent silvers offered at the tables of Legend Numismatics and also Scarsdale Coin and the great depth of material brought by the boys of CRO, njcoincrank and Wayne Herndon.

 

I had brought with me coinage for CAC to examine and did this because I thought they might be doing free on-site evaluations. Regardless of what one thinks of this endeavor, I believe it does not hurt to have another set of experienced eyes look at my coins and does not hurt to possibly have another layer of insurance on my coins in the event that something negative should happen to myself. Being the true science geek that I am, I predicted the CAC outcome of each coin prior to submission and sent these predictions to Mark Feld via PM. Mark no doubt thought I was wildly optimistic, but I was attempting to be brutally honest. The CAC submission was dropped off at 10:45, which was painless enough, and they had hoped to have the coins back within a two-to-three hour window. Unfortunately, some unanticipated computer entry problems meant that some folks did not get their coins back until much later. I was the quintessential example of that delay since I was the last person to have his coins returned. This was at 6:30 and the bourse closed at 6:00.

 

Both njcoincrank and MarkT stayed with me until the coins arrived and then John Albanese was kind enough to discuss the pieces with me at the table. I may be the only person who, upon receipt of one's coins, asked why a coin received a sticker instead of having been rejected. My submission included a few coins that I believed should receive a gold sticker as well as a few coins that I believed should receive no sticker. Of course, the bulk of the submission was made up of coins that I thought should receive a green sticker. We discussed some of these coins and where they might lay within the grading continuum as well as my reasons for certain predictions and the reasons for the CAC decision. I found John Albanese to be very generous with his time and quite willing to discuss the decisions of CAC.

 

I had a great time over the course of the two days in spite of the stale hot dogs served for lunch and the maze that was known as the parking garage. The show had a professional air to it, was well lit with good security, had a great breadth and depth of dealers and had wide aisles. The free opinions given by CAC were a bonus, though I realize that the more jaded in the forum will assume that this was done purely for market penetration and brand name recognition. While this was no doubt part of the motive, I think CAC invested more into the show than that. Although I was able to sell my raw coins easily enough, I left without purchasing anything. This may be the first time in nearly a decade that I attended a show of this size without buying a single coin. Most of this is due to the fact that my collecting focus is fairly strong on my type set and that my set does not need most easier to find coinage. Additionally, the few dated coins that I am looking for are by nature quite scarce in the condition and with the eye appeal that I require. I don't know how well the dealers fared, but Friday was rather sparsely attended and Saturday, while much busier, did not have the "feel" of a hot show. I plan on attending the show next year, too, and would advise those who can attend to do so on Friday so as to get an earlier shot at the more choice pieces.

[MarkFeld]

Tom, thanks for an excellent and highly informative report. If you want to post it on the PCGS forum too, why not simply omit the two paragraphs which mention CAC, the first of which begins "I had brought with me coinage for CAC..."?

 

I thought your predicted CAC acceptance rate was high, but know you buy really nice coins, so I wasn't shocked by the results. I hope to attend the show next year, myself.

[MBA101]

good report and a nice read! (thumbs u

[DirtyGoldMan]

Great report, Tom. Have you posted the results of the CAC grading of your coins (or will you in the future)?

 

I am strongly considering flying to NY and attending next year, so long as conditions allow. It would be a great way to meet a lot of east coast forumites, no doubt.

 

Edit: With all of the discussion of the parking garage, I am going to see if I can have Longacre's driver pick me up and drop me off at the front door.

[MarkFeld]

With all of the discussion of the parking garage, I am going to see if I can have Longacre's driver pick me up and drop me off at the front door.

Drat, Robert, I was going to see if I could have YOU pick ME up and drop me off at the front door.

 

[MarkFeld]

By the way, it's somewhat puzzling (not to mention, silly) to me that PCGS seems so overly sensitive about CAC, especially as compared to grading companies, which offer direct competition.

[TomB]

Mark, I had decided against posting a truncated report on the PCGS site because I was not satisfied with what would have been an enforced, self-censorship. Posting this thread only on the NGC boards felt more satisfying to me.

 

SageRad, at this time I have not posted a detailed account of what coins received what sticker or were rejected, but my predicted and actual totals are as follows-

 

Predicted no sticker-2 coins; Actual no sticker-3 coins

Predicted green sticker-30 coins; Actual green sticker-31 coins

Predicted gold sticker-4 coins; Actual gold sticker-2 coins

 

Please keep in mind that this represents approximately one half of my collection, but also represents all of the coins that I believe should not sticker.

[Mark T]

Great write up Tom. As I said in another post your coins are superb.

My main reason for attending the show was because of the free CAC Submission.

They offer a great service, I believe they are unbiased and totally fair with their grading opinions. I also had a chance to talk with Bill Shamhart who was kind enough to look at all my CAC submissions and explain to me why a coin received and did not receive a sticker.

My 3 favorite coins did receive a green sticker :

 

1913 PCGS MS 64 Quarter Eagle

1915 PCGS MS63 Half Eagle

1821 NGC Au55 Bust Half

 

I hope CAC is there in 2009 – I have 12 months to pick up another 20 coins !!

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

Thanks, Tom, for an interesting and informative report.

 

I hope you will somehow find time to post photos of your CAC coins.

 

Chris

[PCcoins]

I would love to see some pics of the gold stickers! I have never seen any gold stickers before. And a good read Tom, thanks for taking the time.

[pendragon1998]

Thank you for the writeup, Tom. It's the next best thing to visiting the show.

[physics-fan3.14]

I would love to see some pics of the gold stickers! I have never seen any gold stickers before. And a good read Tom, thanks for taking the time.

I agree. Great report, and lets see those gold beans.

[michael]

great detailed report

 

thanks!!!!!

[leeg]

Great report as always Tom.

 

[MarkFeld]

Mark, I had decided against posting a truncated report on the PCGS site because I was not satisfied with what would have been an enforced, self-censorship. Posting this thread only on the NGC boards felt more satisfying to me.

I respect that, Tom.

[EZ_E]

A first time meeting with PreTurb happened quite by accident as he was handing a coin to the boys at CRO and I recognized the coin from an image that PreTurb had posted on the web approximately four years ago. When you recognize a coin from an image seen four years ago, you know something is terribly wrong. PreTurb, being a more normal human than I am, likely thought I was some unknown lunatic as I looked over his shoulder at the coin until I mentioned who I was and how I knew who he was, which then confirmed the impression of a lunatic.

 

Tom, that is both amazing and hilarious at the same time!

[WinstonWare]

Great report! Thanks for taking the time!

[cladking]

Thanks.

[MikeInFL]

Thanks for taking the time, Tom.

[TomB]

Victor, you know that I am a coin geek so I guess it's not so surprising that I might recognize PreTurb simply by noticing a coin he shared once approximately four years ago. However, I think most of the normal human population would think that was downright scary.

 

I've had a few folks send me messages or mention that they would like to see the coins that received a gold sticker. Please keep in mind that looking at coins from images can be mighty deceptive and that grading coins from images may yield the "correct" result on occasion, but that does not mean very much.

 

The coin below received a gold sticker and I am sharing it for a few reasons. The first is that I have noticed at least one member comment on the boards with a question as to whether only relatively inexpensive coins or inexpensive ranges between grades will be rewarded with a gold sticker. The obvious inference is that the CAC bid-market, if it matures and runs as previously mentioned, might not want to be burdened with coins that received the gold sticker if those coins would be worth a significant amount more in the higher grade. If one takes the time to look at the Heritage auction archives, one will find that this issue in this grade trades for approximately $4,000+ whereas this issue in one grade higher than the grade currently on the insert trades for approximately $14,000. My wallet believes this is a substantial difference in price. Another reason to post this coin is as an object lesson in value. I paid far more than a typical coin in this grade might be obtained for, but I bought the coin because even at that level it represented outstanding value, in my opinion. It is nice to see that in the eyes of others that this coin might represent value, too. Lastly, I just think this coin is gorgeous and the image is highly accurate. The coin is in a PCGS MS66 OGH holder.

 

As a side comment, I have also noticed that one or more folks commented that it was their impression that there was a veritable cornucopia of gold stickers given out at CoinFest. As one who attended the show, this was not my observation. I was able to view 110+ coins returned to their owners and there were only four gold stickers in that group. This includes the two coins that I own that received gold stickers and an additional coin that I sold to someone else that received the gold sticker. Additionally, of the approximately 100-200 CAC stickered coins I noticed on the bourse floor, only a single coin had the gold CAC sticker and it was already sold, but was still in the dealer's case. It is my opinion that what we are seeing here is similar to what we witness with wonderfully toned coinage. Specifically, most folks who receive a gold CAC sticker are happy about it and either announce their sticker to others or share an image of the coin, which serves to make the gold sticker appear to be more common that it actually might be. This reminds me of wonderfully toned coinage because folks often like to share images of such coins while others comment that twenty years ago they never saw such coins and, therefore, AT is the cause of the toning. What is overlooked is that twenty years ago if one wanted to see such coins one would have to meet up with the owner of the coin at a show since coin photography was not nearly as universally well practiced as it is today and there was no internet to allow one to view literally thousands upon thousands of coins in a single night.

 

[lehigh96]

Tom,

 

Anytime you want to post a photo of that coin, I give you permission. You don't need a reason and it can be completely OT. IMO, you should post that photo at least once a week. Or post it everyday if you want. I will never tire of staring at that truly phenomenal coin.

 

That is the just the pinnacle of Barber Half Dollars. Here come 25 worship guys.

 

[physics-fan3.14]

That might just convert me to a Barber fan. WOWOWOWOWOWOWOW!

[CTcollector1]

Tom - thats a great barber half. I recall from a past post that you were waiting for the right coin to come along and looks like it was well worth the wait.

 

I was at the show on Saturday and I think most of the buzz was related to CAC. CAC really does the collecting community a service by reviewing collector coins for free (up to 20 coins). If you give CAC a honest chance, you can really learn alot about your coins - good and bad. John seems more than willing to make time to speak to collectors.

 

Tom - one glaring omission from your report was the big "Crack Out" you alerted us to. I must admit that was the largest I have ever seen at a Coin Show !

 

 

[TomB]

Every show report I write manages to have one or two points or people inadvertantly left out and this report failed to mention our time together. I had realized this after submitting the post, but then forgot to edit it later on.

 

Of course, the "crackout artist" that we (unfortunately) witnessed in action was obviously a major player in his field and left a burning image in my memory.

[CarolinaCollector]

Thanks, Tom for the writeup.

[CTcollector1]

:

Of course, the "crackout artist" that we (unfortunately) witnessed in action was obviously a major player in his field and left a burning image in my memory.

 

I heard he got "moon" money for his crackout.....

[physics-fan3.14]

Every show report I write manages to have one or two points or people inadvertantly left out and this report failed to mention our time together. I had realized this after submitting the post, but then forgot to edit it later on.

 

Of course, the "crackout artist" that we (unfortunately) witnessed in action was obviously a major player in his field and left a burning image in my memory.

 

Well come on, tell us the story!

[TomB]

:

Of course, the "crackout artist" that we (unfortunately) witnessed in action was obviously a major player in his field and left a burning image in my memory.

 

I heard he got "moon" money for his crackout.....

Truly -tronomical.

[TomB]

While CTcollector1, MarkT, roadrunner and I were waiting for the delivery of my coins during CoinFest there was one attendee to the show who happened over to the CAC table and bent over to speak with the CAC representative. This attendee was a somewhat overweight male, which is not that unusual at coin shows, but his jeans were a bit too tight to wear properly so they were worn a bit lower than might have been advisable. Anyway...you my be able to tell where this is going...as he was bending over an ample portion of his rear was protruding (or rather extruding ) from his jeans. I was facing in a direction that afforded an unfortunately clear view and so I quickly called the attention of CTcollector1, MarkT and roadrunner to the "exhibit" and they were all suitably mortified, digusted, repulsed and whatever else. Of course, it made for good conversation later on as we produced as many bad puns as possible.

[physics-fan3.14]

HAHA!!! That made me laugh ::

 

(no offense intended to any slightly overweight males we might have on here, being one myself)