1925 Stone Mountain, Is a Matte proof possible?

[Bugmann1974]

Hi My name is Ray and I am new to this message board but not all that new to Numismatics.....

 

I recently bought a very nice 1925 Stone Mountain half dollar. It looks to me that it may be a matte proof. I will try to get pictures posted a little later.

 

What are the best ways to determine wether or not it is a proof as I know nothing about Matte proofs?

 

 

[WoodenJefferson]

Believe it or not, Walter Breen reported at least one matte proof was struck, but he’s been known to error in his assessments on an occasion or two. I’m surprised that there were not presentation pieces minted for dignitaries and high Government officials, but there are official “counter stamped” pieces with abbreviated states with numbered districts.

 

No, I do not think you posses a matte proof…but pictures will be most helpful to determine what you do have

[Bugmann1974]

Here are the pictures, sorry for the quality but both my houses lighting and my photo skills are under par

 

 

I doubt I would be lucky enough to have scored a proof but with the odd matte finish it has I figured I better check into it.

[James_OldeTowne]

I feel very certain that this is not a matte proof, though the image quality may make it difficult to be sure. In fact, I would be concerned about he possibility of altered surfaces.

[MarkFeld]

Welcome to the forum, Ray.

 

That is not a Matte Proof. It is a circulated business strike which appears to have been cleaned.

 

To my knowledge, no Matte Proof Stone Mountains have been authenticated, though a fairly small number of other commemorative issues have.

[TomB]

It's circulated and looks possibly cleaned, too.

[physics-fan3.14]

I agree with TomB (and the others). Sorry Ray.

[WoodenJefferson]

One of a kind Matte Proof 1925-S California Half Dollar. This is what a matte proof of that era would look like.

 

 

 

As NGC Sates: “Matte proof commemorative half dollars were specially prepared for presentation although in most cases very little documentation exists to illuminate their true purpose. The design, rim, and notably the legends on this coin are very crisply struck, much more so than on a business-strike example of the issue. Inherent of proof coinage of this type, it does not possess reflective luster; rather the entire design has a very uniform appearance. Matte proofs allowed designers to showcase the design elements of the coin, and were “fashionable” during the early Twentieth Century. “

 

 

[MarkFeld]

One of a kind Matte Proof 1925-S California Half Dollar. This is what a matte proof of that era would look like.

 

 

 

As NGC Sates: “Matte proof commemorative half dollars were specially prepared for presentation although in most cases very little documentation exists to illuminate their true purpose. The design, rim, and notably the legends on this coin are very crisply struck, much more so than on a business-strike example of the issue. Inherent of proof coinage of this type, it does not possess reflective luster; rather the entire design has a very uniform appearance. Matte proofs allowed designers to showcase the design elements of the coin, and were “fashionable” during the early Twentieth Century. “

 

I think I'll take issue with the "Matte proof commemorative half dollars were specially prepared for presentation" part. I say that, because for a number of the issues at least, it seems that they were made in secret and not presented to anyone.

[RWB]

The Stone Mountain half presented to President Coolidge was a normal circulation strike. Mint engraver Sinnock might have made a couple of sandblast proofs for approval of mint director Grant, and for his personal collection.

[WoodenJefferson]

If someone were to strike some (unauthorized) matte proof commemoratives at the Mint, would it not have had to be someone with complete authority, so no questions by other employees would be asked?

 

In other words, the set up man would do as he was told when handed the dies and blank planchets. Did not the operators of the coin presses keep accurate records of all production runs?

 

MM might not only stand for Mint Mark, but it could very well mean Midnight Minting.

[MarkFeld]

If someone were to strike some (unauthorized) matte proof commemoratives at the Mint, would it not have had to be someone with complete authority, so no questions by other employees would be asked?

 

In other words, the set up man would do as he was told when handed the dies and blank planchets. Did not the operators of the coin presses keep accurate records of all production runs?

 

MM might not only stand for Mint Mark, but it could very well mean Midnight Minting.

I've always been under the impression that Sinnock was the one responsible for most, if not all of the undocumented Proof commemoratives.

[Conder101]

Probably true because most of the known matte proof commems with no documented reason for their existence have pedigrees that trace back to Sinnock's personal collection.

[Bugmann1974]

Thanks for the assesment and the history lesson guys! I am sure that you all will be seeing me around alot and asking alot of questions.

[RWB]

Clarification –

 

From 1915 forward, satin and/or sandblast proofs of new silver and gold coin designs were routinely struck on a medal press before production began. These samples were shown to mint officials (and sometimes sponsors of commemorative coins) for their final approval. Occasionally, some of the coins were retained by officials, but most were returned to the Philadelphia Mint. Engraver John Sinnock kept examples of many of these during his tenure as engraver (1925-1947) as samples of his department’s work. Most known sandblast commemoratives can be traced to Sinnock's collection. (Charles Barber had a large pattern collection; there's nothing unusual about Sinnock's coins.)

 

There are recorded instances of requests being made for sandblast proofs of commemoratives for sale to collectors, and these were usually denied.

 

The implication that something nefarious was going on or that anyone was profiting from clandestine trade is, in my opinion, not generally warranted.