Ngc Labeling error.

[Mark T]

Look closely at this coin. Can you see the mistake NGC made with the label ??

[19Lyds]

D Mint coin.

 

Whoopsie Doodles!

[FILTHYHOARD]

Was this coin on Heritage???

If so I think a friend of mine picked it up.

I think it sold for $950 plus buyer's premium if I'm not mistaken.

[Mark T]

Yes it was on Heritage , I picked it up for $ 950 plus Premium .

Basically I picked up a 1917-D for a 1917 Price .This one is almost as good a find as the Raw 1913 Indian I picked up for $ 415 that graded MS64 at PCGS.

 

[FILTHYHOARD]

Hey Mark T ,

Do you ever frequent the chat boards for coins @ E-bay ?

If so , I think we may know each other.

[PCcoins]

Wow, Thats a big mistake!

[awb]

So what would happen if you sent it back to NGC to get the holder corrected? Would they say "oops, left off the D," fix the label, and keep the grade? Or would they say "oops, the coin that should have gone in this holder was a 1917-P, this D coin is actually a MS-63"?

[Mark T]

They would correct the label and leave the grade alone.

They gave it a MS65 and mislabeled the coin , how could they prove that this 1917-D should have been in another holder??

 

[awb]

They made a mistake, either by mislabeling the holder, or by putting the wrong coin in the holder. I would think they have a plausible excuse either way.

[Mark T]

Most likely a mis labeled holder. I am going to take it in to my local dealer for his opinion on the grade. It looks to be as MS65 , probably a weaker MS65.

 

 

[TomB]

I would expect that NGC simply made an error in recording the coin and not in the grade, but this is simply a hunch. This is a nice score and can provide funds for additional coins if that is of interest to you. (thumbs u

[James_OldeTowne]

Wow, what a terrific catch on your part! And, the 1917-D T1 is underrated by comparison to the P mint coin, in my opinion!

[dean1345]

Mark,

 

Do you buy lotto tickets? Maybe you should start. That is a MS65FH in my opinion and a great catch. Did you catch it early and made a strong bid in the Heritage auction?

 

Dean (thumbs u

[Mark T]

I caught this a couple of weeks before the auction. I had a max bid in for $ 1000 , I was prepared to go to $ 1100 but did not have to . Without magnification it can be easy to miss the mint mark. There were many other MS 65 FH 1917 SLQ's for sale so maybe this one was just overlooked. I did call NGC and they said I should just send it in so they can re holder it. I find these coins to be very difficult to grade , this is my first MS FH SLQ. I looked it over closely with a 16X and do not see any signs off rub. There are some minor nicks but that is normal even for a MS65.

My only real concern is why did they person who consigned this to Heritage not know it was a 1917-D. One possible reason is the coin may have been submitted as a plain 1917 and NGC just labeled it as such. The mint marks on these coins at least for me are not easy to see without magnification.

 

[Coin]

They would correct the label and leave the grade alone.

They gave it a MS65 and mislabeled the coin , how could they prove that this 1917-D should have been in another holder??

 

Better talk to Mike ( jgrinz here) about that first . He can tell ya all about how they will re-grade it and that you could end up with a different grade . Especially if their bottom line is tweaked by a more valuable coin in a MS65FH holder that they have to guarantee the grade on ....and now more than ever , since certain people have ranted and complained(say WWWAAAHHHHHLauraHHHH) (and now the new FPG...CAC is around to check and balance their opinions behind them)to the point that they get squishy about higher grade and harder coins with their name on the label (grade guarantee issues an all) . NGC has tightened up so much (only in my opinion , others feel differently) on their grading lately that I am holding back for a while before I send anything else in ...I'm tired of trying to keep up with what is called market grading versus consistent grading with one set of rules. If it was an MS65FH 2-4 years ago , it should still be a MS65FH today , but who knows what they consider to be an MS65FH today...do you know?

But , seeing how this is just a mechanical error with the label , it might just get slipped into a new holder/label without much fuss , but NGC still reserves the right to change that grade should it ever get back into their temp possession and they deem the grade incorrect by today's standard .

 

It does not show any apparent changes like cleaning residue clouding that could trigger a new grading session , so it SHOULD be safe for submission for a corrected label , should is the key word.

[Coin]

By the way , that is one sweet quarter !

 

On the flip side ,

 

Would you be terribly upset if it came back in a higher grade? I have , to date , never heard of anyone announcing that they got a reholder back graded a point higher from just a re-label , but who knows.

 

If they can change a coins grade on a re-holder or a change to a multi-holder , the grading should be able to go either way , both up as well as down ,not to mention staying the same .

 

Not trying to scare you away from getting the label corrected , it really looks like a no-brainer in the pic you posted. I would pull the trigger and get it fixed , myself .

 

I just wanted you to know that you do run a risk , however small , though. Do not take my word , call NGC first . Or go and read some older posts here about it.

Not trying to drag Mike into it , but his was the last post that popped into my head about coins getting re-graded and downgraded while being re-holdered .

[BankNote1]

That coin looks great to me!!! You is one lucky dude.

[Mark T]

I did call NGC on this. They told me they only would downgrade a coin if it was a obvious over grade. Considering that I am sending it in as a re holder and not a re grade this is very unlikely to happen , or so I was told. The rep told me that I could also be compensated in some way if the coin was to be downgraded. It is very unlikely that this will happen as the more I look at it the more I can see it most likely is a MS65. There is no way they would up this to a MS66. It is possible that the person who submitted this coin incorrectly filled out the paper work as a regular 1917 and NGC never caught it. Maybe the person was a middle aged guy with bad eyes just like me

[Mark T]

I agree that NGC has really tightened up their grading standards to a point where they almost might be under grading.

[Oldtrader3]

Mark, your coin has a recent NGC cert. #. I doubt that they will change the grade.

[Mark T]

Thanks for that info trader, I also asked the rep if he could find out when the coin was certified but he said he could not. Wow if it was just graded considering how tough NGC has become maybe it is an under graded coin !! J/K

[jgrinz]

On A reholder service the coin will go through the grading room.

I am not sure if on a mechanical error if it does - I would say it does too.

This coin was recently graded or fairly recently so I think you are safe??

To protect yourself INSURE it for MAX money th aocin is worth in the marketplace so if they downgrade it they will owe you the difference in $. They have that right so they say to protect their interests in the market place, to do that, but will compensate you $ according to YOUR insurance valuation if it degrades.

Good Luck

Mike

[TomB]

In my opinion, it is unlikely that the coin was submitted by a collector. The reason for this is that most collectors who submit coins have not only a financial, but also an emotional attachment to their coins and, if a collector received a mis-labeled slab on a coin such as this, the collector would likely have the problem fixed immediately. A dealer who purchased a bulk of coins, however, might miss something like this much more readily.

[Mark T]

I was going to insure the coin for the Full Numismeida value of $2100.

Tom your explanation sounds right , a bulk submission with the coin likely

submitted as a regular 1917. I will submit re submit this next week and post when I get the coin back .

 

 

[dean1345]

Good point Tom.

 

Dean

[Coin]

Cool ,

 

I have gotten a few returned from NGC labelled wrong ( missing/wrong mint mark , wrong coins in holders/ mix-matched with label...which really stinks when you sub multiples of the same coin....which is in the right holder/label?..etc) .

 

As TomB said , though , I had them corrected by either sending them back or handing them over at an NGC table at coin shows rather than leaving them alone and shoving them out to an auction site without a bother , as either an unknowledgeable or unconcerned seller obviously did in this case.

 

Amazing that Heritage , who has been advertising for a Numismatist for awhile now , did not bother to even look at the coin .....how could they even make auction description comments without looking at the piece being so eloquently written about...I guess Heritage is using 'canned' or 'form-letter saved' descriptions on their auctions so their comments are just about worthless unless the coin is valued at over $100,000 or something . No problem, another excellent opportunity to cherry-pick their selections....too bad for the owners they are supposed to be presenting the coin for ie: lost revenue for both (one or the other shouldn't have been lazy) . That's what not staying on top of the program gets ya , I guess. I really like dealing with Heritage because of the volume and selections...guess I'll keep my eyes open a little wider when I check their pics .

 

Good catch on your part , Mark .

 

I have not had any coins returned up/downgraded from mechanical error correcting on labels . They all were returned in most haste in correct holders with correct labels .

 

I stand on my original statement that NGC can downgrade if they suddenly think a coin was over-graded when re-sub'd for a relabel or reholder .

 

I also stand on my original opine that if your quarter was mine , I would not hesitate to send it in to correct the holder , as I believe it to not show any problems that would warrant a second look for a possible downgrade from the pics posted .

[Mark T]

Just Back from NGC

[Coindude]

Well done there... but you'd think they could orient the coin correctly!

[Mark T]

Yes it is a little bit tilted!

[cpm9ball]

Maybe the person was a middle aged guy with bad eyes just like me

 

Maybe it was submitted by the heirs of an estate, and they didn't know an SLQ from an SLR.

 

Chris