Typical offer at a dealer

[Architecht]

 

So you're buying a coin at a new dealer you don't know but who has a good reputation. They've got list prices on coins and you need to make an offer.

 

What is your perception of the typical process for the offer using the polls below? I'm just talking average here. I'm sure that there are always coins that they want to stand firmer on and coins that are better or worse priced. And of course, there are cherry picking exceptions where you'd be likely to pay list because it's already a bargain. But I'm assuming a typical coin with a typical price where everyone knows what it is.

 

 

 

 

[cpm9ball]

I remember the first time that I walked into Frank's Coins at the Riviera Casino in 1999. Patrick (Frank's brother) runs the store, and I had never met him before then. He had an item in one of the display cases with a price tag of $400. I offered him $300, and he accepted without batting an eye.

 

Ever since then, I have always made it a point to stop by whenever I was in Vegas, and I have always come home with something. I usually make it a point to offer in the neighborhood of 15-20% back of list, and sometimes, if Patrick sees that I'm really interested in a coin, he will offer it to me for less than I was planning to offer.

 

Please keep in mind that this isn't the norm. Usually, I try to stick to the "15-20% rule" in hopes of paying in the neighborhood of 10-15% off, but it all depends on the item and the sticker price.

 

Chris

[MarkFeld]

I remember the first time that I walked into Frank's Coins at the Riviera Casino in 1999. Patrick (Frank's brother) runs the store, and I had never met him before then. He had an item in one of the display cases with a price tag of $400. I offered him $300, and he accepted without batting an eye.

 

Ever since then, I have always made it a point to stop by whenever I was in Vegas, and I have always come home with something. I usually make it a point to offer in the neighborhood of 15-20% back of list, and sometimes, if Patrick sees that I'm really interested in a coin, he will offer it to me for less than I was planning to offer.

 

Please keep in mind that this isn't the norm. Usually, I try to stick to the "15-20% rule" in hopes of paying in the neighborhood of 10-15% off, but it all depends on the item and the sticker price.

 

Chris

I don't know the seller personally, so I am not picking on him, in particular. However, it would bother me if a seller quickly accepted $300 for a coin he had listed at $400.

 

What about potential buyers who wouldn't feel comfortable making such a large counteroffer? What type of margin is the seller working on? Why not list the coin at close to the "real" price to start with?

 

I respect and prefer to give business to sellers who quote a realistic price to start with and who, for example, don't list coins for sale at 33 1/3% over what they would actually sell them for.

[cpm9ball]

I remember the first time that I walked into Frank's Coins at the Riviera Casino in 1999. Patrick (Frank's brother) runs the store, and I had never met him before then. He had an item in one of the display cases with a price tag of $400. I offered him $300, and he accepted without batting an eye.

 

Ever since then, I have always made it a point to stop by whenever I was in Vegas, and I have always come home with something. I usually make it a point to offer in the neighborhood of 15-20% back of list, and sometimes, if Patrick sees that I'm really interested in a coin, he will offer it to me for less than I was planning to offer.

 

Please keep in mind that this isn't the norm. Usually, I try to stick to the "15-20% rule" in hopes of paying in the neighborhood of 10-15% off, but it all depends on the item and the sticker price.

 

Chris

I don't know the seller personally, so I am not picking on him, in particular. However, it would bother me if a seller quickly accepted $300 for a coin he had listed at $400.

 

What about potential buyers who wouldn't feel comfortable making such a large counteroffer? What type of margin is the seller working on? Why not list the coin at close to the "real" price to start with?

 

I respect and prefer to give business to sellers who quote a realistic price to start with and who, for example, don't list coins for sale at 33 1/3% over what they would actually sell them for.

 

I don't know what kind of mark-up he is using. I do know that Patrick has commented more than once that he has to move inventory because Frank is always buying new stuff, and you have to realize that the traffic in this kind of specialty shop is not what you would find in, say, an airport. Most people come to Vegas to gamble, and I would imagine that many of those people lose their money in the casinos before they ever consider buying coins.

 

I have purchased some really nice coins from Patrick, and those that I have purchased didn't seem to be overpriced. Maybe it is because Frank buys everything at bargain-basement prices. I don't know. On the other hand, maybe Patrick just likes me.

 

Chris

[BillJones]

I can't answer the question because my offer would be based on what the market says the coin is worth combined with what the coin is worth to me. As a collector I've overpaid at times because I really liked the coin (or token or medal) and figured I might not see another one for a long time. As a dealer you can't do that unless you have a want list customer and can sell the coin to him at a fair retail price.

 

Generally if a dealer has a stupidly high price on a coin, I won't bother with an offer. Generally it's not worth my time to mess with him, and if I go too far he might go running around calling me a cheapskate. That's not a good reputation to have.

[James_OldeTowne]

None of the above. I think the best approach is to ask the dealer:

 

What is your best price?

[zrlevin]

None of the above. I think the best approach is to ask the dealer:

 

What is your best price?

 

This is my approach as well, though I have found that a common retort is:

 

What is your best offer?

[cpm9ball]

None of the above. I think the best approach is to ask the dealer:

 

What is your best price?

 

This is my approach as well, though I have found that a common retort is:

 

What is your best offer?

 

I don't like to ask this question. A dealer could always reply, "That is my best offer. It's best for me!"

 

I'd rather make an offer to begin the negotiation. If the dealer won't budge, then I have to decide if it is really worth, to me, what he is asking. If he makes a counteroffer, then I know that he is willing to come down some. It then becomes a process of determining what is the best middle ground for both of us.

 

Chris

 

PS. I've said before that I have a flea market mentality. I'm not afraid or embarrassed to ask for a lower price. If any of you have ever held a garage sale, then you know that most people will do the same.

[Coin]

I'm not able to choose one of the choices , as my own mode of operation is not to just have a % to automatically go to .

 

I have been in the example situation a few times , and depending on what I know about the particular seller/dealer , determines what rolls out of my mouth next.

 

My average approach in a similar generic situation runs about like the following:

 

[Assuming , as in the given situation example above, I know that the stock will be at or near list prices ahead of time and I have to make a purchase (never really 'had' to make a purchase) ]

 

1) First thing I do is ask the dealer if his prices are firm . " Hello , I see you have a nice selection , how firm are you on the prices? Will you accept offers on any of these ( or a particular coin ) ?

 

2) If the reply is "No , my prices are firm , as listed " .....and I am willing to pay the amount for a coin that meets my requirements , I ask to see whatever coin it is and make a decision of whether or not a) the coin is worthy of fullfilling my need or want , and then b) is the coin price one I can live with or if not , should I continue my search elsewhere to find an equal or better example at a price that I feel comfortable with.

 

3) If the reply is " Yes , I will consider offers , is there a particular coin you are interested in?"......I proceed to a) again ask to see the particular coin to determine if it meets my requirements (why bargain for one you can't use or do not want) , and then b) determine what I feel the value is worth to me based on what I know the market average is for the particular coin ....and compare the list price/his price/market prices ...I like to be close to and about under 10-15%(would really love it to be free, but you know ) , but will pay 10-20 % over , if the coin is worthy . I make my offer based on this , unless his price is lower than market/list , then no offer is made the coin is just purchased .( should I not have enough pricing information in my head , I could always assess the coin and then leave , go and find out what I need to know , and return later to make an offer) .

 

Don't just ask " What would you take for this?" It always leads to you being asked " What are you willing to pay?" or "The price is on the list" , etc .

 

 

Now the above posting so far, is just wonderful when the situations were right to go my way ....however....there have been a few times when I stumbled across dealers that I had heard about and happened to be near his/her shop and had the time to stop by....not knowing if I was going to be in the area again anytime soon ....whereas I walked in and spotted something I was looking for. I asked if he/she was firm or would hear an offer for the coin I wanted , and when either the price was right or offers were heard or both , and I didn't happen to have time to consult a price guide ....I had to still think about what the coin was worth to me , both cost wise and how bad I wanted it . Once this figure popped up in my mind , I went with it .

 

Not the best way to do anything . Sometimes I walk away with a bargain , and others I paid market , by not having a clear price range predetermined....and that is hard for me to do for all the coins I am interested in at any point in time , unless I concentrate on one or two particular coins at a time.

 

So there is really no automatic % that I always revert to in all situations . Besides , the prices of coins are changing soo much nowadays it is tough to keep up some times.

[PerryHall]

I don't like playing games like I'm at some flea market. I ask the dealer what his best price is and then I either play or pass.

[James_OldeTowne]

None of the above. I think the best approach is to ask the dealer:

 

What is your best price?

 

This is my approach as well, though I have found that a common retort is:

 

What is your best offer?

A lot of dealers try to use that diversion, but an excellent response is "What's sheet?"

 

Then, when they say "You can't buy this coin for sheet!", you've got him. Just respond with "How much over sheet did you pay?"

 

Well, it sometimes works anyway .

 

[physics-fan3.14]

I really like it when I walk up to a dealers case and he greets me with a smile and says "What would you like to see. Make an offer, I'm willing to work with you." I'm actually more likely to pay more at a dealer's table who is friendly than one who just coldly sits back there staring at me. At that sort of table, I feel no relationship to the dealer and I am going to do my best to get it for as cheap as possible - I might as well be dealing with a guy on the computer. But I am willing to pay more for a friendly dealer who will talk to me, help me out, and work with me - just like I'm willing to give a much better tip to a (cute) waitress who works hard and does a good job.

[Houston Investor]

I do not put prices on coins or currency except junk material which after I add up what they have picked out I will knock 10% - 20% off. Otherwise they can walk.

 

On nicer coins I have a cost code and a code for market value (usually coin world trends). I also have a computer listing (handy for me) with Market Value, Cost, and CDN Bid (material over $100 - the rest is accounted for in bulk pools). Some coins may be priced at a set % above CDN Bid or a set % above cost - others will be offered at a slight % discount (usually 10% - 15%) below Market Retail. I do not haggle or argue about prices. They either take the deal or get lost. What sort of discount (if any) I may offer a coin below market retail will vary on the kind of show I am having, cash position, etc. I am the one who calls the shots on what I price my coins at - no one else. There is a balance between giving away coins too cheap and asking unrealistic prices.

 

I believe it is a mistake to put prices on coins at shows (it robs you of flexibility and any upper hand you may have) unless its junk you know your going to discount. Other dealers will use this info to undersell you, buyers will simply try to talk you down believing your price is somehow inflated. In this way if you are at a show and nobody asks prices then you know the people coming in the door have no money. Having a good coding system is critical (stickers should be on the back of the slab and not too large). Never ever tell anyone the basis of your price (price guide, etc). They may have an updated version you don't have and expect a lower price like if it went down. If they insist on a basis simply say "its priced based on what its currently trading for in the market place." Say the guy quotes your bid - tell him "maybe you should send them a check." or "Do you have one to sell me at that?" Or even better: "why don't you go find one."

 

A guy keeps on trying to haggle with you - say to him "I operate on a narrow spread and this is my best price." Remember you are in control, not them. The key is having a good cash position not being desparate to sell for peanuts. Many shows the only substantial sales available will be dealer to dealer. I don't take below bid from dealers walking up to my table to buy. Bid plus a very slight fee or commission is the minimum I will ask. Don't let them talk you down if they come up to your table to pick you off. Knowing value and what your coins are really worth is really critical to avoid giving them away or asking unrealistic prices.

 

[Houston Investor]

None of the above. I think the best approach is to ask the dealer:

 

What is your best price?

 

This is my approach as well, though I have found that a common retort is:

 

What is your best offer?

A lot of dealers try to use that diversion, but an excellent response is "What's sheet?"

 

Then, when they say "You can't buy this coin for sheet!", you've got him. Just respond with "How much over sheet did you pay?"

 

Well, it sometimes works anyway .

 

Whats sheet? ha ha - I tell them "Well its wholesale - so what?" In addition its proprietary info. If they wanna know sheet then let them get their own copy. I hate shows that hand out grey sheets to the public (or even worse blue).

[michael]

just like I'm willing to give a much better tip to a (cute) waitress who works hard and does a good job.

 

what happens if the waitress is ugly/homely and fat/corpulant but does work hard is really nice and does an excllent job??

[zrlevin]

just like I'm willing to give a much better tip to a (cute) waitress who works hard and does a good job.

 

what happens if the waitress is ugly/homely and fat/corpulant but does work hard is really nice and does an excllent job??

 

A simple mathematical operation comes into play:

[physics-fan3.14]

just like I'm willing to give a much better tip to a (cute) waitress who works hard and does a good job.

 

what happens if the waitress is ugly/homely and fat/corpulant but does work hard is really nice and does an excllent job??

 

A simple mathematical operation comes into play:

 

Haha, zach, that's a good one! Really, the tip is based on how good she was. I might be a little more generous if she was really cute, but not a whole lot more.

[okbustchaser]

Where is the "100%...If can't afford to spend $1000.00 (to pick an easy number) for a coin then chances are good I can't afford $950.00 for it right then either." option?

 

I have no desire to argue back and forth over a few dollars. This is my HOBBY, not my life.

[Coin]

It all boils down to ...there just isn't quite alot of times where anyone absolutely 'has' to buy a coin , unless there is a deadline for a client that really doesn't care about the quality of what they are getting , but just wants to fill a hole with something/anything . .......from a hobbyist point of view .

 

On the flip side , for the ones that I buy sight unseen....yes unseen stuff....like modern common already graded in TOP TPG holders....I guess a realistic goal for an offer could be .....look up retail in Coin Values , then divide in half ....make ofer and start there. Obviously , not what one would do with a key or rare or 'old' coin , but it's a good place to start ....it's how I make bids on Heritage Auctions...and believe it or not , won a few like that ....but not very many...but then I did not have to buy them ...but could use them for sets with holes like example...1986 1 cent MS67 RD or better for @$10 ....saves me grading fees and fills a hole on a set that I'm not going bonkers to complete anytime soon .

 

This , of course , does not really apply to ,say, a FS Jefferson set where I want the best I can get and would pay more for a FS graded MS 66 or better early date or the key . With these I have to see the coin and determine if the price is fair enough . I realize that dealers have costs and lives and want to be able to afford food and live in a house like everyone else and aren't providing a service for free just because they like to lose money , no , they need to make a little something to at least stay in business to keep bringing out nice coins and maybe even feed their familys too .

I do not expect an Applebees bar & grill to give food away at a loss , so I don't expect a dealer to not make something either . Without dealers , I would have to go door-to-door from one end of America to the other just to find coins to add to my sets.

It is nice to get a great deal every now an then , though , like at a flea market or an auction bid that came in real low an won....but I don't expect that every time.

[Architecht]

 

Interesting.

 

So do you guys generally think that there's a difference in the numbers you would choose in these polls by coin type? Gold, classic, modern, world, ancient, etc?

[cpm9ball]

No!

[zrlevin]

Interesting.

 

So do you guys generally think that there's a difference in the numbers you would choose in these polls by coin type? Gold, classic, modern, world, ancient, etc?

 

When I do this, it depends on the individual coin, not the type.