Questions from a new Collector

[cottonseed-migration]

I have been told PCGS and NGC are the best grading services to use and everyone respects their findings. Is this correct.

 

Is a 2008 platinum four coin proof set graded by PCGS or NGC PR69 of more value than an ANACS grade PR70?

 

Is the PCGS pricing guide a good guide?

 

Does an ANACS graded coin value hold up to the PCGS pricing guide?

 

I have also be told and read articles that PCGS intentionally under grades because of their policy of paying for over graded coins. Is this true

 

I have also been told no one respects ANACS grading because of their association with HSN. They are accused of over grading. Is this true?

 

I am also looking for a good wholesaler of pre 1933 gold coins, does anyone have someone they reccommend?

 

I am just trying to learn and understand the business of coin collectin

[DaveG]

"Grasshopper",

 

The questions you ask can't really be answered - except by saying "maybe" or "sometimes" or "it depends".

 

Certainly, NGC and PCGS are the two most widely respected grading services. Does "everyone" respect their grading? Sometimes. Are other services worthy of respect? Certainly - sometimes.

 

As for a PCGS/NGC Platinum four coin proof set vs. one graded by ANACS - it depends on the specific coins in question. It's very hard to give a general answer that would be worth anything.

 

The PCGS pricing guide is a "guide". Whether it's a "good guide" depends on who's looking at it and for what purpose.

 

Does PCGS "intentionally under grade"? I doubt it, but I'm sure that everyone you talk to will have a different opinion - depending on their experience level and what coins they collect.

 

Does "no one respect ANACS"? Many people respect ANACS. However, ANACS has changed ownership several times in the past 20-30 years. If you have a few hours, someone with more experience than I have can explain all about ANACS.

 

I don't know any good wholesaler of pre-1933 gold coins.

 

If you really want to learn how to go about being a coin collector, then I highly recommend you read "The Coin Collector's Survival Manual" by Scott Travers.

[dean1345]

BTW welcome to the board. It is best to educate yourself bedore diving into coin collecting. There are many years of knowledge on this board so be like a sponge. Good luck

 

Dean

[Mark T]

"I have been told PCGS and NGC are the best grading services to use and everyone respects their findings. Is this correct."

 

Yes the are considered the best

 

 

"Is a 2008 platinum four coin proof set graded by PCGS or NGC PR69 of more value than an ANACS grade PR70?"

 

As a rule a PCGS coin will carry a higher premium then ANACS

 

"Is the PCGS pricing guide a good guide?"

 

The PCGS price guide is the highest retail price value of a PCGS coin.

The best way to get a value on a coin is to sign up at Heritage auctions and look at their price history for coins. They give wholesale and retails comparisons.

www.ha.com

 

 

"Does an ANACS graded coin value hold up to the PCGS pricing guide?"

 

See explanation above on PCGS Price guide

 

"I have also be told and read articles that PCGS intentionally under grades because of their policy of paying for over graded coins. Is this true "

 

Not true

 

"I have also been told no one respects ANACS grading because of their association with HSN. They are accused of over grading. Is this true?"

 

Not true – you will see PCGS and NGC coin on HSH also . Anacs is more liberal in grading but does not Intentionally over grade

 

I am also looking for a good wholesaler of pre 1933 gold coins, does anyone have someone they reccommend?

 

Can not help you here with a wholesaler .

You can get some great deals from the Auction Houses if you look hard enough

 

 

 

 

I am just trying to learn and understand the business of coin collectin

[cpm9ball]

Hey Seed! (Pun intended)

 

Welcome to the neighborhood.

 

It would be to your benefit to learn more about the coins you are collecting before you look into the dealers who sell them. If you don't, you will more than likely get burned. There are good dealers and there are bad dealers, but how will you be able to differentiate between them if you can't tell a good coin from a bad coin? If you don't know the market trends, how will you know if you are getting a good deal or just getting taken?

 

If gold is what interests you, then you should be aware that there are many counterfeits and doctored coins floating all around. Whether or not you will be able to buy from wholesalers at below-market prices, I can't say, but being able to tell the good from the bad requires a lot of study, and there are no shortcuts to success. I don't collect gold because I don't have that knowledge, but there are many experienced people, here, who can help.

 

Good luck!

 

Chris

[Oldtrader3]

I do not know of any "wholesale" gold coin dealers who sell anything but low end for grade, generic, gold coins that might be hard to sell at grade level later on. I have collected gold for over 40 years and there is no such thing as a "good deal" on gold coins, except paying a fair price from a reputable dealer. Buy from dealers who have a solid auction site or solid credentials who are established dealers with a good reputation for integrity.

 

This is especially true with buying gold, incused quarter eagle or half eagle coins minted from 1908 to 1929. Many people on this site have bought doctored or counterfeit gold Indian coins which were not in NGC, PCGS, ICG or ANACS slabs. Another issue with gold coins is that there are many coins that have been dipped and stripped of their luster, been puttied or thumbed to cover blemishes which are in reputable slabs. Buying gold coins can be a minefield without knowledge. Buy and read many books and attend coin shows, if you are able to, and learn what a particular series coin should look like. There is a great deal of variability in gold coin attributes with coins from the various mints and coin series.

[cottonseed-migration]

Thanks for the advice, I bought "The Coin Collector's Survival Manual" by Scott Travers and intend to read it as soon as it gets here. I have also joined the ANA and I was woundering if their classes are worth attending. Could anyone recommend a reputable dealer I could work with. I have been working with Lear Capital and they are ok, but a little aggressive for my blood.

 

I am glad to hear ANACS are good guys and I am bound and determine any thing I buy will be graded. I consider it part of doing business. So far I have gottten the following in the last 6 months and any advice on what direction I should head would be greatly appreciated.

 

I got from the US mint the following:

 

2 complete sets of 2008 proof Platium Eagles, one graded PR 69 and One graded PR70 by PCGS

2 completes sets of 2008 gold Eagles, one graded PR 69 and one Graded PR70 by PCGS

2 complete sets of 2008 gold Buffalo, mostly graded 69, only two coins graded PR70 by PCGS

30 2008 Pooof Silver Eagles most graded PR69 a few are PR70 by PCGS

50 set of the 2008 Silver mint set out for grading at ANACS and 10 of the 2007 at PCGS out for Grading

 

The reason for multible sets is I do not want to pay dealers a premium for PR70 so I just buy them from the mint myself and send them in to be graded and cross my fingers. So far I am doiing ok.

 

The other reason I have the new Proofs graded right away is because I bought a few 2001 proof sets and sent them in for grading still in the orginal boxes and everything came back PR64. So I figured the only way to get a 70 or 69 was to send them right away and just save all of the orginal boxes.

 

I got these from various dealers

 

20 Pre 1933 $20 Libs from MS65 to MS60 mostly graded by PCGS and NGC

30 various $10, $5 indians, some $21/2 and $3 dollar indians.

50 $1 Morgans AU58 - MS65 and about 30 Peace dollars withe same ratings.

I have about 20 other gold coins all graded PR69 or PR70.

 

I got these from the US mint

 

I have all of the gold Proofs Presidents and Spouses all graded PR70 or PR69 from PCGS.

 

I have a silver Kilo from China for the 2008 Olympics Graded PR69 by NGC

 

I am really interested in moving forward I really would appreciate all of your good advice. I feel kind of lost and not know what direction to head.

 

[DaveG]

Yes - the ANA's classes are worth attending, whether you go to the Summer Seminar or take a class at a coin show.

 

Probably the best way to figure out where you should go from here is to figure out why you bought the coins you have: What do you like about them, which ones do you still like to look at - which ones do you never look at, etc., etc.

 

Most collectors collect what they're interested in and many collectors are interested in history.

 

Some folks like the American Colonial era, so they collect New Jersey coppers and other Colonial coins. I like the 1840s and 1850s and I collect silver and gold coins from that time period as well as "ephemera" (checks, receipts, bonds, etc.)

 

Some folks collect Silver Eagles because they can get them from the Mint in very high grades each year, some folks collect current "pocket change" from circulation and some folks like to get current coins in very high grades (MS-70).

 

It all depends on what you like - what you find interesting.

[cottonseed-migration]

I like High grade Proof sets PR70 or PR69, I just now found out NGC does multible coin holders. I really like that concept. I plan to send the 30 complete silver mint proof set to them for grading and placement in multible holders.I also plan to send in my PR69 set of Eagles to be put in a multible coin case. Does "First Strike" from PCGS have any real value. I also like 1875 - 1933 gold and silver. I think that time in history is fascinating. I just have not found a good dealer to buy from. I pan to go to a coin show soon and I will attrnd some ANA classes. Thanks for the in put.

 

My son and I have a game, with everything moving aroud so much we see who can buy a silver or gold coin the cheapest durning each week. With some of the dips I have won twice this month and my son is gritting his teeth. It has been great fun with my son.

[DaveG]

Well, it sounds like you have a couple of interesting directions in which to head.

 

I can't offer much of an opinion on "First Strikes" as I don't collect modern coins. However, I think many people regards it as more of a marketing thing rather than something that will find favor with many collectors.

[cpm9ball]

I like High grade Proof sets PR70 or PR69, I just now found out NGC does multible coin holders. I really like that concept. I plan to send the 30 complete silver mint proof set to them for grading and placement in multible holders.I also plan to send in my PR69 set of Eagles to be put in a multible coin case. Does "First Strike" from PCGS have any real value. I also like 1875 - 1933 gold and silver. I think that time in history is fascinating. I just have not found a good dealer to buy from. I pan to go to a coin show soon and I will attrnd some ANA classes. Thanks for the in put.

 

My son and I have a game, with everything moving aroud so much we see who can buy a silver or gold coin the cheapest durning each week. With some of the dips I have won twice this month and my son is gritting his teeth. It has been great fun with my son.

 

If you find the multi-holders appealing, you might want to get some direction from Mike (jgrinz) about submissions. He has submitted a lot of them for the multi-holders. Submitting multiple sets of the same year might require special instructions for slabbing them, such as, "Do you want coins with the same grade (but from different sets) encapsulated in the same holder?"

 

Chris

[jgrinz]

I am just trying to learn and understand the business of coin collectin

 

This is a line that concerns me .. are you a collector or are you trying to turn this into a business... business side of things can get sticky with out a LOT of research and knowledge ... If you are just a collector then you can choose your own path on what you want to collect and who you want to certify with. Most of the Old timers ( hem hem I am not in this catagory ) have learned through experience that NGC and PCGS are the most consistant TPG ( Third Party Graders ). There are others like ANACS but the change in ownership too many times have made a lot of collectors and dealers alike nervous. I do not trust PCGS price guide as they create it themselves and NOT let a third party valuate their coins as does NGC who uses numismedia to evealute their coins. Both tend to over evaluate so I would suggest do you own research with sellers like Heritage histories Teletrade Histories even Ebay histories of sales.

 

As far as Multi Holders go ... well I am KING!

 

To see some of my Works you can go ...

 

Here

 

And Here to see some.

 

Any Questions feel free to Private Message me which would be to click on my name to the left and click on "Send a PM"

 

Good Luck sounds like a real nice start you have there ..

 

 

 

[BillJones]

I have been told PCGS and NGC are the best grading services to use and everyone respects their findings. Is this correct.

 

PCGS has more gravitas in the market, in general. This is especially true of the modern coin market, but if you are thoughtful collector, you should not put very much money in THAT market unless you don’t care about how much money you lose. The bottom line is advanced collectors buy coins, not grading companies or grades. I’ve had discussions with my customers where we could discuss the coins, but could not remember which service had graded the coins. It’s the coin and the price that counts. Over graded – over priced coins are out there from both services. You need to learn how to grade coins to get the know the difference.

 

Is a 2008 platinum four coin proof set graded by PCGS or NGC PR69 of more value than an ANACS grade PR70?

 

I can't answer that one with one word, but I'll tell you this. Most collectors don't give a rat's tail about platinum coins. When you buy them you are buying the metal, NOT a numismatic item.

 

Is the PCGS pricing guide a good guide?

 

Most collectors agree that the PCGS guide prices are too high and are a self-serving marketing tool for PCGS. I'd check out "Coin Prices" magazine for retail prices and "The Coin Dealer Newsletter" (Gray Sheet) for what are now mostly low wholesale prices.

 

Does an ANACS graded coin value hold up to the PCGS pricing guide?

 

It does not hold up at all. The new ANACS is now in flux, and PCGS prices have no sense of reality here.

 

I have also be told and read articles that PCGS intentionally under grades because of their policy of paying for over graded coins. Is this true

 

Sorry, but I don't understand this question.

 

Grossly over graded coins get cracked out and sent in with the hopes of getting a higher grade. Conservatively graded coins might bright higher prices. That's all I can say on the subject.

 

I have also been told no one respects ANACS grading because of their association with HSN. They are accused of over grading. Is this true?

 

Like I said before ANACS is in flux, and no one knows where it's going. In the past 20 years, ANACS in it's best of times was the #3 grading service behind PCGS and NGC. Now it is something lower than that. If you are going to spend big money on coins, I'd avoid ANACS.

 

I am also looking for a good wholesaler of pre 1933 gold coins, does anyone have someone they reccommend?

 

In the coin market you get what you pay for IF you are treated fairly. If you are looking to buy pre 1933 gold coins based on price alone, get ready to end up with a lot of over graded or low end for the grade gold coins. Really nice pieces for the grade bring premium prices. Low end and over graded stuff bring lower prices.

 

I've tried to be brutally honest here, so you can take my answers from there.

 

[EZ_E]

Try offering graded platinum proofs whether slabbed or not, PR70 or not, ANACS or NGC or not, dealers will still only offer melt value for the coins and may turn around and sell them for retail.

[BillJones]

Try offering graded platinum proofs whether slabbed or not, PR70 or not, ANACS or NGC or not, dealers will still only offer melt value for the coins and may turn around and sell them for retail.

 

My experience with raw platinum coins when I tried to sell them at the shows a few years ago was that no one was interested. All I could get was melt for them from dealer who had a street level shop.

 

There has never been a decent market for modern coins in ANACS holders. The market for NGC modern coins is a little better, but not great. It's only the PCGS graded pieces that bring stupid (IMO) money.

 

If you can find nice pieces, the NCG modern pieces can offer the better value when it comes to modern pieces. I found a very nice 1964 JFK half dollar in NGC PR-69 Ultra Cam for my type set at a fraction of the price for a similar graded PCGS piece. For my purposes, that was great. I did not want to put several hundred dollars into that coin. As a collector I only wanted a nice example.

[cottonseed-migration]

I am a collector and I am building my retirement position. I like your multiple sets, thank you for the ideas. I just sent in a couple of items for multiple holders. I think your sets are very cool. How do you feel about "first strike" from PCGS. Any value there?

 

Look at banking and Freddie MAC and Fanny Mae, why would you put any thing into a bank or stocks or real-estate. Coins are real value. Hence for my retirement.

 

Thanks for the advice on the grades.

[BillJones]

To begin, "first strike" is a marketing gimmick. Knowledgeable collectors know that the U.S. produces some coins months in advance of the new year and that the first coins to appear are “first issues” NOT first strikes. Therefore the so-called First Strike coins have nothing on the pieces that are issued later.

 

It remains to be seen of the PCGS coins with the “First Strike” designation will continue to bring a premium price. As a collector I would not pay a penny more for them, but I’ve been at this for almost 50 years, and my perspectives are different from those who have at it for only a few years. I think that it’s telling, however, that PCGS bans discussions of the merits of the “First Strike” concept on their collector chat board. What are they afraid of? I think you should draw some conclusions from that.

 

Second, I would be very leery putting a substantial portion of my retirement or investment income into coins. Coins are a luxury good that derive their value from collection demand. That demand is not only subject to general economic conditions but also collector tastes. Therefore, even if you get the grading right and select nice, attractive coins, the safety factor is not as good as you might think.

 

Coins are also not as liquid as stocks and bonds. There are no organized exchanges, and you need to know how to dispose of you holdings if you need or want money. Yes, prices are listed in wholesale publications, like the Gray Sheet, but you have no assurances that you can actually get those prices.

 

The only retirement investment that I would make in coins would be bullion gold or silver coins. Those items are commodities, and in some cases there have been numismatic influences as well. A prime example is the U.S. silver eagles. Some dates in that series have developed a numismatic value in addition to their bullion value.

 

I have substantial holdings in collector coins, but I have even more money in other places. My investment advisor thinks I'm nuts, and has been on my case to sell. But for coins are a source of enjoyment, I'm willing to take the risk.

[cottonseed-migration]

Thank you for the clear insite. I think First Issue from HSN and First Strike from PCGS are marketing gimicks, However gimicks can turn into trends 10 years from now. It does not cost that much to add it on if it is yourself doing the grading, I do not think it is worth paying more for a coin because it is so designated.

 

I have a attended numerious investment training clases in all sorts of markets and have put my money into several avenues in the past. Most investment broker care about themselves first andf you second as do fund managers. I know several folks who teach these classes and who are on the insode scoop of things, and it is my belief that they are correct. Just look at what is happening in our country right now. Coins are not as liquid as stocks and bonds, but they sure are more liquid than real-eatate. Think I wil stick with coins, besides it is a lot more fun and lot more enjoyable, and your do not have to put up with renter trashing the place.

 

Thanks for the advice on Platium, I figured it was that way, it going to take a while for that to all change. But I sure do like the way they look.

 

Another really great looking coin is the 2008 and 2007 silver Kilos for the Vancouver Olympics. Very nice coins. I just bout one of each ungraded (I will get them graded).

 

I also thank you for your advice on the pre-1933 gold. I figured as much and I intend to take some grading clases. I really like this coin business and intend to join some club soon and go to some shows.

 

I want to thank every one for their frank and honst statements, it has been great.

[Conder101]

Another really great looking coin is the 2008 and 2007 silver Kilos for the Vancouver Olympics. Very nice coins. I just bout one of each ungraded (I will get them graded).

By whom? They won't fit in any services holder. The only service that I've ever seen that has graded a coin n an outsized holder (other than NGC with the brown ikes, CC dollars, and first day covers) is Accugrade. And I've only seen a few of those. I don't think you will be able to get them graded. I also think that in the long runs they will be worth bullion.

[cottonseed-migration]

NGC grades them, I have a Bejing kilo graded by them. I like the looks of the big coins, they have great detail and alot of relief. They are like any thing new, you just do not know how thing will play out until you have them for a while. It is like the Silver proofs for the 2010 game they have an Holographic effect,very cool but who know how much they will be worth in the future. The big Kilos only have 8000 made, so there will be some limit to who will have them. Only time will tell.

[cottonseed-migration]

How do you insert photos into your post?